Prince Andrew

[Tevion28]

Do you think guilty or innocent

The aristocracy know one another. They go to the same schools, mix at the same social events.

@ErinTingey

However Andrew would have mixed entirely with royal/aristocratic/global rich types. In what situation would he ever come across poor girls from the projects on an equal social footing? Literally never.

How would he know her background? I doubt they soul shared over a long, romantic dinner. He undoubtedly saw her as just another young, attractive woman happy to have sex with him.

He'd know she was a teenager from another country, without her parents present, flown into the country by two adults not related to her, on a night out and then what looks like a house party. That's the very least he knew.

If he didn't ask questions he bloody well should have.

@toomuchlaundry

How many people on MN condone/watch porn?

I and my partner do.

Is the idea that if you watch porn (I don't) that you are as bad as Epstein and Andrew and have no right to criticise? That you should just STFU and let rich and powerful men groom, abuse and rape vulnerable teenagers?

OP
Did she have a secure stable upbringing

You started this thread. Why don't you answer your own questions. Look up what her upbringing was like.
It was pretty awful

Can you not Google OP? I'm absolutely baffled as to why you're asking questions you could answer with a quick Google.

You asked about her upbringing. Google it:

Born Virginia Roberts, she was raised in Florida but had a troubled upbringing, explaining: “I went from an abusive situation, to being a runaway, to living in foster homes.”

Gosh not quite sure how some of you can normalise this on his behalf. I hope you don't have children.
Like most rapists it's power and control nothing to do with sex.

He undoubtedly saw her as just another young, attractive woman happy to have sex with him.

Again, too thick to ask questions and easily used is not a defence for somebody in his position.

Again if that is honestly the acceptable standard for the Royal Family we should become a republic tomorrow because they are a liability.

At the time of the picture he was one tragic accident away from being next in line to the throne.

rich and powerful men groom, abuse and rape vulnerable teenagers?

That’s exactly what happens in some porn, and the watcher usually has no idea which girls/women have been groomed and raped, so why on earth would you get your rocks off watching it and not knowing!
Epstein and Maxwell filmed much of what went on in those bedrooms (the tapes have mysteriously “disappeared”). They could have put them on the internet and people would be actually watching rape of teenagers.

I’ve no idea how anyone can watch it, not knowing if the girls are being abused.

@gilorga

She is releasing details of her settlement with Epstein. Andrews lawyers are arguing the settlement included an agreement to not sue anyone else linked to Epstein including royalty. Seems a bit suspect

The US Court ordered its release on the application of PA's lawyers and lawyers acting for Alan Dershowitz in a separate civil case Giuffre is bringing against Dershowitz. Giuffre's lawyers didn't want it released.

It is interesting how many posters have defended Andrew by posting possible legal objections that the court has already rejected.

It is interesting how many posters have defended Andrew by posting possible legal objections that the court has already rejected

Yes, these posters seem very ill informed.

@LizzieSiddal

My FIL stated over Christmas that although he doesn't condone what went on he doesn't think the girls are innocent themselves.

Did you point out he’s talking about teenagers here being raped by men, mostly in their late 30s/40s?

Yes. I said weren't some of them 14 from very bad vulnerable backgrounds? It has changed my view of FIL.

I think that the Prince Charles associating with JS is very different. I met JS at an army event in the early 00s, he was surrounded by four or five teenagers (I would guess around 16) and whilst I thought dirty old man not for one minute did I think they wanted to be anywhere but there, obviously with the benefit of hindsight I draw a different conclusion. I can well believe that PC didn’t think to question anything or maybe didn’t see anything to question.
I can also believe that Andrew didn’t think VR wanted to be anywhere but with him. Yes very very grim and disgusting to sleep with someone close in age to your daughters but I can believe that he thought that they wanted to be there, because rich (and powerful) men do have a sense of entitlement.

I think if you watch porn and criticise PA, then you may need to look at how the porn industry is run, because otherwise you are being a tad hypocritical

@RoyalFamilyFan

It is interesting how many posters have defended Andrew by posting possible legal objections that the court has already rejected.

Isn't it just!

Guilty. No doubt at all.

Prince Andrew has made an “unprecedented” request for all witness testimony in the sexual abuse case of trafficked teenagers to be kept secret

Standard tactic for the RF, unfortunately, though it's worrying to see that his lawyers have suggested moving the case to the UK courts

The motive's obvious, since in the Queen's Courts there's no chance of him being made responsible for anything, so I just hope the Americans don't get fed up of the whole thing and hand it over

The thing that has my attention in all of this is not PA but the black book and what GM knows about the most powerful men in the world.

PA is the dead cat flung on the table to get our attention.

I agree that the RF have had dodgy links with paedophiles - but it's bigger than that. Savile had a knighthood but he also had a Papal Knighthood. The PIE links between politicians, Churches of all descriptions, the RF, the Met and aristocracy are known - they might not be freely reported, but they are known.

PIE never went away - I think what changed was the nouveau rich joined in and those people are bright and strategic and always knew how to protect themselves.

PA is their sacrifice that we are all, rightly, outraged about - but I'd not be at all surprised to one day find out Epstein is living in Mexico with a new face.

Again, too thick to ask questions and easily used is not a defence for somebody in his position

^This. Every single member of the RF should be exemplary. How can you put yourselves up there as beacons of virtue, to be feted, to be adored, and engage in this sort of sleazy behaviour. Sometimes I think the RF must think us public are stupid. To put up with this sort of thing.

Of course we are all fallible, marriages fail, people fall out with each other, but PA and his shenanigans over decades is a whole other level of boorish entitlement. And he has been instrumental in turning me from quite the Royalist to wanting to see the lot of them go.

I've read some interesting articles and listened to enlightening podcasts. Before GM got entangled with JE, she really wasn't that well off. She lived in a small apartment in NY. But over the course of their relationship he gave her about £30million, really in exchange for her little black book of the rich, famous and royalty.

But there were strings attached, she had to keep providing a steady stream of young girls. He wanted sex three times a day apparently. So she became the respectable face of trafficking young nubile girls for his pleasure and to satisfy his depravity. These young girls trusted her, she acted like their big sister, taking them shopping, advising them on clothes, asking them about boyfriends etc.

She really is quite revolting and never was I more glad than when she was found guilty.
And this was the world the son of our Queen chose to inhabit.

Sometimes I think the RF must think us public are stupid. To put up with this sort of thing.

They and the very privileged are brought up to think they have a God given right to what they have.
And by very privileged I count the likes of Boris Johnson who has shown us time and time again that he is so arrogant he thinks the laws and rules do not apply to him and his friends.

And I should add I hope the Bristish public finally properly wake up to the fact the likes of PA and BJ really are not to be trusted, feted or voted for.

What is so galling is.... so many people have unwavering respect for the RF. They can do no wrong. Yet they are lacking in respect for the british public, I think. They must be

At the time of the picture he was one tragic accident away from being next in line to the throne

I am not a particular fan of the hereditary principle, but he wasn't. In 2001, William was already next in line to Charles, and was over 18, though not by much; so there would have been no question of Andrew even being Regent.