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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Prince Andrew

999 replies

Tevion28 · 01/01/2022 23:58

Do you think guilty or innocent

OP posts:
EdenFlower · 02/01/2022 10:14

I think he definitely slept with Virginia Guiffre, what that makes him guilty of I'm not sure.

I don't like him, nor do i like her, and think she's not the 'innocent victim' she claims to be.

RoyalFamilyFan · 02/01/2022 10:14

If you are friends with a paedophile, go to their parties, and have sex with girls introduced to you by this paedophile, what does that make you?

gilorga · 02/01/2022 10:14

There are always people who defend sex abusers and paedophiles even when the evidence is clear, and it is often women who are the loudest defenders.

it's weird isn't it. I can kind of understand it if it's a family member (not wanting to accept the truth) but a stranger, weird.

merrymouse · 02/01/2022 10:15

It probably wouldn't occur to PA that the girls were trafficked & I think it may not have done to a few people.

Friday visiting an outward bound centre run by a charity that teaches leadership and team work to teenagers from deprived backgrounds - a charity that has your name on the letterhead

Saturday, girls of the same age provided for sex?

If people with so much close contact with charities can claim to be completely oblivious, what does that say about the RF and their place in society?

gilorga · 02/01/2022 10:16

I don't like him, nor do i like her, and think she's not the 'innocent victim' she claims to be.

What is an "innocent victim"? @EdenFlower

Brainwave89 · 02/01/2022 10:17

prince Andrews Close was once a street name... now its a warning!

RoyalFamilyFan · 02/01/2022 10:18

And Andrews defence?
He hadn't met her/ A photo proved that a lie.
He couldn't medically sweat. Virginia had referred to him sweating. The court asked for medical proof and he admitted he couldn't provide this.
That he was at a Pizza Express in Woking. He has been asked by the court to provide proof of this. It hasn't been provided yet.

The only other defence is to attack and rubbish Virginia. Same old same as always. In other words, claiming she is a money-grabbing slag who knew what she was doing. This is what every single celebrity accused of sexual abuse always ends up alleging.

Cailin66 · 02/01/2022 10:18

The question being asked is not clear to me.

Yes he probably had sex with a 17 year old. Which is legal. Prostitution is also legal. Which is what it looks like to me.

gilorga · 02/01/2022 10:19

I never thought I would say I felt sorry for Sarah Ferguson either but I do.

why did she have to borrow 15k off Epstein? so strange.

RoyalFamilyFan · 02/01/2022 10:19

@merrymouse

It probably wouldn't occur to PA that the girls were trafficked & I think it may not have done to a few people.

Friday visiting an outward bound centre run by a charity that teaches leadership and team work to teenagers from deprived backgrounds - a charity that has your name on the letterhead

Saturday, girls of the same age provided for sex?

If people with so much close contact with charities can claim to be completely oblivious, what does that say about the RF and their place in society?

Agreed. If you cant see the connection you have no business being involved in any charities.
Kennykenkencat · 02/01/2022 10:19

Personally I always thought a lot of members of the royal family (those that were born into it) were at best naive or just a little dim so I can see that he might not have cottoned on to what was happening.
I also think that not many people from the U.K. would know that it was illegal for someone to be considered underage at 17.

Despite what one people think I also don’t think seeing a famous person having a pizza would make you run off and inform the media or it would even be a memorable event especially remembering the date or even month years later.

I also think that serving staff don’t really take any notice of who people are or even recognise someone like PA sat at a table.

Despite all the Guilty opinions and the comments of “Throw away the key” This is a civil case, purely about money if the evidence sort of proves he is responsible how much compensation he has to pay rather than jail time and being found guilty in a criminal case

Even then he doesn’t have to pay anything as a US Court has no jurisdiction here.
I just think that VG is blind to what she is doing and unsure why she is pursuing even if everything she says is the absolute truth.

Even if she is awarded compensation it is unlikely to be paid. The legal bills could end up bankrupting her as well as putting her and her families lives on hold for probably a decades.

Sometimes you have to look at the reality and decide if it is worth the time and expense or just walk away.

I question her legal team whether they have made it perfectly clear what the reality is. Or whether it is just a very well paid publicity stunt.

CathyorClaire · 02/01/2022 10:19

I never thought I would say I felt sorry for Sarah Ferguson either but I do

Fergie happily took money from Epstein to pay off a £78K debt he'd negotiated down to £15K on her behalf. There were more contact numbers for her in Epstein's little black book than there were for Andrew.

RoyalFamilyFan · 02/01/2022 10:20

@Cailin66

The question being asked is not clear to me.

Yes he probably had sex with a 17 year old. Which is legal. Prostitution is also legal. Which is what it looks like to me.

Sex trafficking is illegal. This is what the civil court is considering.
gilorga · 02/01/2022 10:22

I am more concerned with PA’s dodgy financial dealings than whether or not he had sex many years ago with a 17 year old girl.

I think both show how nefarious he is.

VG may once have been a victim, but she has used her victimhood to make a lot of money. And what is this case about? Not an apology but her chance to strike paydirt.

So she was a victim but because she has a payout she's not anymore?

Brainwave89 · 02/01/2022 10:23

Couple of points. On sex trafficking, it is often the way that abusers ask girls they have already abused to provide the names of others so they can abuse them as well. This was a feature of the Rotherham scandals in the UK and clearly happened here. This is a method of abuse by child abusers. it absolutely does not mean that the girls providing the addresses are also guilty.

Prince Andrew showed no curiosity around young girls travelling on the same plane as him who were clearly young and not with their parents. He had knowledge or should have had knowledge that this was not right.

He claims to have been present at Pizza Express at the time he was supposed to have been with Virigina Guffrie. There are no witnesses to this. Whilst I can believe that Prince Andrew would not remember staff or others present, imagine you are a waitress in Pizza Express and a Prince walks in- you would remember, and be able to recall dates and times. However no one can. It is therefore a clear lie.

Viviennemary · 02/01/2022 10:23

Its totally sleazy. It sounds like a form of prostitution in exchange for probably money, luxury living and flying around in private jets. Exploitation yes. But I wouldn't say she was a sex slave.

RoyalFamilyFan · 02/01/2022 10:23

@Kennykenkencat lots of cases that get dropped by the police under pressure from senior people, end up being won in civil court. Hillsborough is a very famous case in point as was the murder of Stephen Lawrence.
People resort to civil courts not because they are greedy commoners out for all they can get, but because when they have tried the police and got nowhere, civil court is the only place they can go.

Or do you think the Hillsborough family victims and Stephen Lawrences mother only went to civil court because they are greedy?

LookslovelyinSpringtime · 02/01/2022 10:24

@gilorga

I never thought I would say I felt sorry for Sarah Ferguson either but I do.

why did she have to borrow 15k off Epstein? so strange.

Because she lives well beyond her means and is also extremely entitled.
RoyalFamilyFan · 02/01/2022 10:25

@Brainwave89

Couple of points. On sex trafficking, it is often the way that abusers ask girls they have already abused to provide the names of others so they can abuse them as well. This was a feature of the Rotherham scandals in the UK and clearly happened here. This is a method of abuse by child abusers. it absolutely does not mean that the girls providing the addresses are also guilty.

Prince Andrew showed no curiosity around young girls travelling on the same plane as him who were clearly young and not with their parents. He had knowledge or should have had knowledge that this was not right.

He claims to have been present at Pizza Express at the time he was supposed to have been with Virigina Guffrie. There are no witnesses to this. Whilst I can believe that Prince Andrew would not remember staff or others present, imagine you are a waitress in Pizza Express and a Prince walks in- you would remember, and be able to recall dates and times. However no one can. It is therefore a clear lie.

Yes, I don't believe that nobody in a Pizza Express would remember seeing Royal Family members eating there. And most people do remember when they saw someone famous somewhere ordinary and unexpected.
gilorga · 02/01/2022 10:27

Why are people painting the picture of Andrew as this hapless man who couldn't possibly have known about Epstein & what he was up too?

Andrew the man who had no problem visiting & schmoozing with dictators & despots for financial gain.

Andrew who meant the convicted Epstein & a few days later money got sent to Fergie.

Lockheart · 02/01/2022 10:28

@gilorga

It’s not a crime to be friends with a paedophilie?

It shows a severe lack of judgement surely? particularly if you're a public figure

Yes but having a severe lack of judgement and being bloody stupid are not in and of themselves criminal acts.

PA is shady and sleazy as fuck. Whether he has actually broken any laws in this particular case I doubt we'll ever know for sure (although personally I'd bet money he has).

flashy44 · 02/01/2022 10:28

Guilty.There is no way he could not have known what his friends were up to,he is saying he didnt know because he was up to it himself.

DrBlackbird · 02/01/2022 10:28

Guilty beyond reasonable doubt of knowingly committing an act that is a crime in this country? Not sure.

I can believe PA thought VG was lucky to have sex with him. But not sure many judges would accept ignorance as an acceptable defence for any of the more ordinary folks.

gilorga · 02/01/2022 10:28

@LookslovelyinSpringtime but it's weird that Andrew couldn't pay it off with his millions? plain greed then I guess

RoyalFamilyFan · 02/01/2022 10:29

@gilorga because he is a member of the RF. If he was Jim who works in the bookies no one would be saying this. Many in Britain are still forelock tuggers.

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