Prince Andrew

[Tevion28]

Do you think guilty or innocent

so instead she resorts to these civil suits knowing shes going to get rich out of it and succeed in ruining his rep , although it is already ruined so as someone else had said shes already won , all it is a farce

God, I know, what a total farce that the man living in unimaginable luxury on public money can't just hang out with his sex abuser friends and sleep with under aged, trafficked girls when he likes.

It's just so unfair. Justice for PA.

In reality of course, he trashed his own reputation with his appalling behaviour over the years and that hideous interview.

@Roussette

If anyone wants to read it, here is the transcript of the interview. It's a real eye opener given what has happened since it was aired.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50449339

And it looks just as bad as watching it at the time.

Emily did a great job. You can tell that PA has been told to mention/drag in certain key phrases and ideas (family man, devoted father, war hero, work with abused children , role within the RF) , which he manages to do , but so clumsily that they stick out like sore thumbs. There are quite a few places where he starts to say something then manages to stop himself. If I were a juror listening to a man speak like this in a trial I would not believe a word that fell out of his mouth.

I had forgotten btw that the non sweating brought on by trauma during his war service (see above for sore thumbs) was conveniently beginning to heal itself! It’s a miracle. I can understand why his lawyers are so determined to stop him having to testify, Emily was determined and polite, a tough lawyer would have tied him up in sweaty knots within a few sentences,.

there must be a lot of rich man sweating now

Guilty.
He was asked to provide medical proof that he cant sweat by the court and has had to admit he cant.

She is releasing details of her settlement with Epstein. Andrews lawyers are arguing the settlement included an agreement to not sue anyone else linked to Epstein including royalty. Seems a bit suspect

He's clearly been involved, as have many senior make public figures. If he is brought to account, as many of them as possible should also be. Whoever they are.

Virginia Roberts is also, though, a dynamic type and it's interesting that several girls have said she was bustling around at the heart of it all, helping procure other girls. I feel she might be the sort that lands on her feet and makes the most of whatever situation she's in. That makes no difference, however, to the fact that an operation deliberately procuring under age girls (or any girls, really) to provide sexual favours to rich older men is totally illegal and utterly repugnant. She possibly did her best to exploit the exploiters, that's all.

men

Senior male figures not make

@Roussette

I am not sure he is guilty of anything under UK law

He is going through a civil case under US law. Which is why he has the best lawyers in the whole of the US working for him over there for eye watering fees

.... and guess who's paying for them?

so instead she resorts to these civil suits knowing shes going to get rich out of it and succeed in ruining his rep , although it is already ruined so as someone else had said shes already won , all it is a farce

He ruined his own rep

Guilty, but there is no way he will go to jail. People will be killed before that happens. GM will be found dead in her cell having committed suicide, only it won't really be suicide.

Virginia Roberts is also, though, a dynamic type and it's interesting that several girls have said she was bustling around at the heart of it all, helping procure other girls. I feel she might be the sort that lands on her feet and makes the most of whatever situation she's in. That makes no difference, however, to the fact that an operation deliberately procuring under age girls (or any girls, really) to provide sexual favours to rich older men is totally illegal and utterly repugnant. She possibly did her best to exploit the exploiters, that's all.

Agree, it's irrelevant.

@AutumnAlmanack

I'm sorry but I still can't get over how happy she looks in that photo - a genuine happy smile. What, a Prince interested in little old moi???

I have photos of me smiling with my abuser as a teenager. Some people are so ignorant.

no it would no be impossible for him to go back to that whatever the outcome

You can't have it both ways.

If she's the gold-digging opportunist you allege there's no good reason for him not to be on the gold-plated gravy train at accountable public expense and not being funded by the back door Mummy currently holds open for him.

maybe showing my age here, but what a lot of posters seem to be missing is that at the time that famous photo was taken of PA, VR and GM, (March 2001) there really was NOT the same concept of sex trafficing in the UK as there is now.
Nor was there such a cultural shift against sex with underage children (which I believe was 16 in the UK).

Difficult tho it may be to believe in light of modern day thinking (post MeToo etc and the wide ranging Modern Slavery legislation which has been implimented SINCE 2001) I remember 2001 and would suggest that a 17 year old having sex with a much older man was something people "just accepted" (and most especially did not challenge if the older man was rich / aristocracy). It does not make what happened right, i just can well believe that many many people inside the Royal family and elsewhere knew exactly what was happening but just concluded in their heads "Oh well she is just a young prostitute so that is OK".
The shift in public thinking about these types of things is relatively revolutionary.

I definitely think PA is guilty (and a total sleeze bag). But i strongly suspect that when he had sex with VR it never once entered his head that there was an inbalance of power which he should consider on a moral level. Like others have said, he is so breathtakingly arrogant it would never have dawned on him that he should not be having sex with a 17 year old who would be paid for it.

And I would also speculate that it is possible that he actually had sex with many many young girls who were procured for him via Maxwell at that time ("Randy Andy" was a name everyone in society had heard of) so it really is quite possible that he does not remember Virgina Roberts (but he definitely remembers sleeping with lots of very young girls who Maxwell paid.

We know Andrew lied in that interview. So i am amazed that anyone is seeing his as innocent.

GM will be found dead in her cell having committed suicide, only it won't really be suicide

Would they really pull this again?

@bubblesbubbles11 although I agree with your assessment of Andrew, sex trafficking was well recognised in 2001.
Yes there were people then who thought that what Andrew allegedly did was fine. But there are people now who think that. Look at this thread. Nothing has changed since then.

@TheKeatingFive if it saves the skin of various rich and powerful men then yes. Or attacked by another prisoner who has been paid.

I definitely think PA is guilty (and a total sleeze bag). But i strongly suspect that when he had sex with VR it never once entered his head that there was an inbalance of power which he should consider on a moral level. Like others have said, he is so breathtakingly arrogant it would never have dawned on him that he should not be having sex with a 17 year old who would be paid for it.

I don't think stupidly or arrogance should be a get out clause though.

I think he did know what was going on with Epstein and Maxwell, but his arrogance led him to believe that he was untouchable should the shit hit the fan. Which to a degree he is, because any proceedings against him will "go away" just as the court case with Meghan Markle did recently given HM's age and apparent frailty. His behaviour has always been questionable, let's be honest - he was happy taking backhanders from whomever. I do however think that Charles or William would happily throw him to the wolves.

I also question about Virginia's parents/guardians..... surely there's a degree of parental responsibility here for a 17 year old being flown around the world meeting Princes/wealthy men. It doesn't take a genius to add 2 + 2 here as to what was expected of her.

But i strongly suspect that when he had sex with VR it never once entered his head that there was an inbalance of power which he should consider on a moral level.

Like others have said, he is so breathtakingly arrogant it would never have dawned on him that he should not be having sex with a 17 year old who would be paid for it.*

But ignorance is no defence.

bubbles I agree but let's just say this case hadn't happened, and let's assume that we are now more aware (Me Too etc), I don't think PA would be any different whatsoever.
He has no morals. The lesser people are there at his disposal. That is his ingrained mindset.

As far as GM dying in her cell. Won't happen. She is watched every 15 minutes etc

I also question about Virginia's parents/guardians..... surely there's a degree of parental responsibility here for a 17 year old being flown around the world meeting Princes/wealthy men. It doesn't take a genius to add 2 + 2 here as to what was expected of her

Yes of course. But let's face it, some parents just don't care if money is coming in. Some parents would rather be in ignorance. Some parents would think 'gosh hasn't our daughter done well' and not think any further at all. Uncaring neglect really

I bet that PA knew full well that VG was placed in that bedroom
for his pleasure.

He probably assumed that JE and GM had 'people' who ensured the girls brought to him were legally OK.