I think I've just experienced what it's like in England..

[Builtthiscityonsausagerolls]

To not be a native English speaker.

My natural first language is Welsh. I went to an English university and obviously have a native proficiency in English but when chatting im more comfortable in Welsh.

So... I'm on a train in the Midlands with a friend. Had a chatty conversation with the conducter in English, guy sitting across from us very friendly. The we switched to Welsh and the difference in attitude was immediate. Felt very hostile. Very hard to explain, but as soon as we switched languages it became almost threatening?

I'm used to speaking Welsh in maybe more border towns (mainly chester) where its quite common, but thinking about it not in 'deep' England :) 😀

We keep going over it, but the change in attitude was definitely when we changed language. Is this really the experienced of non-English speakers? The hostility really was quite overt

Perhaps he thought you were excluding him - were you speaking English to him and then abruptly switched to Welsh?

Since when did people speak Welsh in Chester?

Hm, I wonder if he thought you were talking about him? My DH family speak English and Welsh and it makes you a bit paranoid when people suddenly go from speaking English in a group to speaking Welsh between themselves knowing you can’t understand. A bit like 2 people whispering when you are in the room.
I’ve got over my paranoia somewhat but still find it a bit rude…

Oh and yeah, it was rude (IMO) to switch to Welsh just like that, when you started off speaking English . Why switch?

He probably thought you were talking about him.

I 100% would have thought you switched language to either talk about me or to get me out of the conversation

It sounds like he might have thought you were talking about him & had switched language to do it.

Some of DH's family are more fluent in Irish than I am, and when they speak it in front of me, thus excluding me, it feels deeply alienating and nasty. Maybe that's what caused the problem?

You often hear people speak Welsh in Chester.
It's the closest city to North Wales... parts of Chester City are literally in Wales (the football ground for example)
Why would a complete stranger think we are excluding him? I turned to my friend and we talked in our native language.
Although interesting as to why maybe there is xenophobia. Is it paranoia that they 'might be talking about me

Why should they not converse together in the language that they find easiest? Why does a stranger need to understand their conversations or to feel included? Maybe I’m used to this… live in Wales but don’t speak Welsh. The Welsh speakers will break off a Welsh language converse as I pass to greet me before switching batch to Welsh to carry on chatting…. Totally normal, they speak Welsh not English as a first choice.

You're perfectly within your rights to speak your mother tongue with a friend on a train. It's only rude if you're travelling with other people who don't understand - you'd had a friendly chat with a stranger, that doesn't oblige you to keep speaking his language for the whole journey. I presume you didn't cut him off rudely

Why would you expect him to continue being friendly when you’d deliberately switched to a language he didn’t understand? Even the most positive interpretation is that you were signalling that your conversation was now private - so of course he’d pull back.

30 years ago DH & I went into a shop and everyone switched from English to Welsh - their choice obviously - but it felt a bit strange

I would not be slightest bit threatening to you if you spoke Welsh but it can feel excluding the other way round.

He has probably experienced exclusion before it's not nice

I’m a Welsh speaker but English is the lannguage I use the most. However, when I’m with a friend who also speaks Welsh sometimes we don’t even realise then we’ve switched languages, we sort of switch back and forth a lot. I don’t really understand why it’s rude for people to switch back to their preferred language? You wouldn’t say that about two French people using their preferred language.

I'm a non-native English speaker but have mostly lived in bigger cities so when i speak my native language people probably just assume I'm a tourist.

In my experience is only monolingual (English) speakers who equate speaking in your own language with being gossiped about. Most people i know who speak more than 1 language understand that sometimes it's just easier to speak in your native language.

I have never felt this in my decades of living here or while speaking my own language. In fact, I find England highly inclusive of others and the minute I moved to London I felt welcome. I now live in the SW in a rural location and have never been made to feel like this. I have lived in 3 continents and always feel when I read things like this.

Why switch?
Because I was having a chat with my friend in our native language???
Should we do it in English so that strangers on a train in Birminham don't think we're talking about them.
Really

In what way did he become hostile? Did he say something when you switched to Welsh or what?

I would potentially find it odd that you switched in front of me, unless there was a cue to do so.

If the conductor came in and said, “tickets from Newcastle please” with a Welsh accent and you launched straight into a Welsh reply, I’d think nothing of it.

If I overheard you chatting in English until one said, “so do you speak Welsh then?” before an immediate switch, I’d also think nothing of it.

One of you switching apropos of nothing? I’d probably feel a bit paranoid, yes.

FYI I have a group of friends where the majority speak Welsh but two don’t. The conversation sometimes naturally starts to steer towards Welsh, I always try to make a point of speaking English as not to exclude, because it is rude. The same happened to me in a group of Greek/English speaking friends and it’s frustrating. This, however, is about a stranger on a train.

@LittleDandelionClock

Since when did people speak Welsh in Chester?

I live in Manchester and (very) occasionally hear Welsh being spoken. Chester is lot closer to the border so much more common there.

What makes you think he became hostile?

Maybe he thought you were rude because you were being friendly but then proceeded to switch to a language that meant he was totally excluded from the conversation?

@LittleDandelionClock

Oh and yeah, it was rude (IMO) to switch to Welsh just like that, when you started off speaking English . Why switch?

Possibly it was a private conversation the the OP didn't feel like sharing with a stranger?

It’s rude behaviour to talk to someone who is being friendly, then turn to your friend and speak in a different language that the person can’t understand.

Are you normally that rude or was you not aware you was being rude?

If you hadn’t spoken to him at all and was speaking Welsh with your friend then that would be fine, but to be chatting to someone then turn and change language is a mean thing to do, as they can’t understand you anymore, which was obviously the point.