I think I've just experienced what it's like in England..

[Builtthiscityonsausagerolls]

To not be a native English speaker.

My natural first language is Welsh. I went to an English university and obviously have a native proficiency in English but when chatting im more comfortable in Welsh.

So... I'm on a train in the Midlands with a friend. Had a chatty conversation with the conducter in English, guy sitting across from us very friendly. The we switched to Welsh and the difference in attitude was immediate. Felt very hostile. Very hard to explain, but as soon as we switched languages it became almost threatening?

I'm used to speaking Welsh in maybe more border towns (mainly chester) where its quite common, but thinking about it not in 'deep' England :) 😀

We keep going over it, but the change in attitude was definitely when we changed language. Is this really the experienced of non-English speakers? The hostility really was quite overt

It is rude. My friend is Portuguese and her family speak Portuguese together but switch to English if anyone English is about. She mentioned this in the context of parks and teacher her children it's polite to switch to English when other children are playing nearby.

That said I'd have understood you were just happy to speak your own language.

I went to Wales recently and I started off thinking it was pointless and ridiculous to insist on all the Welsh signs and Welsh speaking. I came away with a respect for the careful handling of an important aspect of the culture and realised (when I'd stopped laughing at the signs) that it's a fascinating and beautiful language and the Welsh have been very canny to hang on to their heritage in this way. We shouldn't celebrate homogeneity. I have spoken to friends since who maintain a boorish ignorance and insistence that the Welsh should speak English. Some people are just twats.

I could understand someone feeling uncomfortable about someone chatting away I'm another language especially if you know they can speak English.

@Builtthiscityonsausagerolls

Why switch? Because I was having a chat with my friend in our native language??? Should we do it in English so that strangers on a train in Birminham don't think we're talking about them. Really

🤣 has Welsh got different forms of “we”? English is shit. I once read that some aboriginal languages have a wealth of variations on “we” that make it really easy to know who you are referring to. I read that as “we” (the conductor and yourself) switched to Welsh!

So ignore my reply 🤣

Not at all odd to speak Welsh with your friend.

In what way did he become hostile?

@Luckyelephant1

In what way did he become hostile? Did he say something when you switched to Welsh or what?

It's very hard to put into words. Body language changed, staring.... I know this makes me sound like a teenager, but it's when you pick up a very hostile attitude from a man. I started this thread not to get into Welsh/English bunfight, but because I was talking with my friend and we discussed whether this was something that happens to other people who speak a different language. Whether they experience this hostility.

quornflakegirl you're confused that other people have different experiences to you?

Why would a complete stranger think we are excluding him? I turned to my friend and we talked in our native language.

So if you had turned to your friend to have a private conversation, why did you expect continued overt friendliness from him? You’d had your brief, casual interaction; once that was over, he was hardly going to sit there grinning gormlessly at you.

I wouldn’t find it rude. If anything I would be quite fascinated! I love languages!

@Builtthiscityonsausagerolls

You often hear people speak Welsh in Chester. It's the closest city to North Wales... parts of Chester City are literally in Wales (the football ground for example) Why would a complete stranger think we are excluding him? I turned to my friend and we talked in our native language. Although interesting as to why maybe there is xenophobia. Is it paranoia that they 'might be talking about me

You often hear people speak Welsh in Chester.

Nope. People don't often speak Welsh in Chester. I know coz I bloody lived there for years, and only recently moved. It's practically bloody Merseyside, and more people sound scouse than Welsh!

Loads of towns and cities are close-ish to Wales, Whitchurch, Shrewsbury, Parts of South Shropshire and Herefordshire. And they don't speak Welsh. Even some of WALES don't speak Welsh. Rhyl, for example, and some other parts.

@theantigardener

I live in Manchester and (very) occasionally hear Welsh being spoken.

If you do, it is very occasionally. Then again, you will hear other languages very occasionally everywhere!

I have family who are fluent in four languages. I love them dearly but do feel slightly uncomfortable when with them and they stop speaking English and speak to each other in one of the other languages.

What was he doing that was hostile? Surely you can’t expect a stranger to be friendly when you’re speaking a language they don’t understand. I have lot of Welsh speaking family but they speak English around me because it’s rude to exclude others.

@sparklefarts

I 100% would have thought you switched language to either talk about me or to get me out of the conversation

I think a lot of people would have thought this, as you were both obviously bi-lingual. You know this, surely?

@WomanStanleyWoman

Why would a complete stranger think we are excluding him? I turned to my friend and we talked in our native language.

So if you had turned to your friend to have a private conversation, why did you expect continued overt friendliness from him? You’d had your brief, casual interaction; once that was over, he was hardly going to sit there grinning gormlessly at you.

Exactly this. Probably thought (as most people do on here) that the OP was bloody rude (and the other guy too!)

Maybe he thought you were excluding him (which you were and are obviously entitled to do). He isn't going to keep on trying to smile and chat to you if you are speaking another language

Yes, totally confused that in 2 decades I’ve never come across people who do this. The op implied people in England are like this in her title. It’s not true, which is why Of course the whole nation isn’t like this. What not to understand about that?

What was he doing that was so hostile?

It’s not about different experiences, body language or talking a different language. This was because you was rude.

If you didn’t speak to him at all or have any conversation with him, then it would have been fine for you and your friend to change from English to welsh and back and forth, but you was actively taking to him and being friendly, then switched, that’s rude, it’s basically the same as shutting a door on someone’s face if that helps you understand the rude part better.

@Builtthiscityonsausagerolls

Body language changed, staring.... I know this makes me sound like a teenager, but it's when you pick up a very hostile attitude from a man.

WTF are you trying to say?

@WomanStanleyWoman

Why would you expect him to continue being friendly when you’d deliberately switched to a language he didn’t understand? Even the most positive interpretation is that you were signalling that your conversation was now private - so of course he’d pull back.

Exactly.

I don't know how the man across from you conveyed that he was "very friendly". Presumably by speaking to you (?) but when you switched to speaking in Welsh - assuming he doesn't speak Welsh - he knew that would be the end to any communication with you - as you obviously wanted to speak privately, which you are perfectly entitled to do of course. Naturally he would have started to "mind his own business". I don't know what choice he had and why he was at fault in some way.

I experienced this at a local nail salon and I found it really rude, ignorant and unprofessional, especially when they'd talk to each other after just speaking to me then burst out laughing (I never returned because of it).
However, in your scenario it wouldn't bother me.

Icedcoffees I live in Manchester and not heard anyone speak Welsh here in decades, ever! You do get a lot of Polish and then various Indian/Pakistani/Asian even Spanish speakers, possibly some African languages. Its never caused hostility though because we are a multicultural city which is something to love about it!

Change in attitude is due to your rudeness, I should think.

I speak an Asian language and I wouldn't dream of excluding someone I was just chatting to in English (yes, even a stranger) by suddenly turning around and speaking in my community language to my companion when all of were having a friendly chat.

What part did he play in the conversation with the conductor?
Do you mean that he had a friendly demeanour then, or he was actually part of your conversation?
If you had actually directly engaged with him in that friendly chat then abruptly moved on to speaking Welsh with your friend, I can see that it might seem a deliberate snub. You’d have to be there to tell, as it’s in the timing I suppose.
You didn’t OWE him a continued conversation, but there are more and less polite ways of moving on!

Liverpool is close to Wales and I have heard a lot of languages - but never Welsh. Spent lots of time in Chester too.

I have heard Welsh in Bala, Llandudno and other places in North Wales

Was anything said? What constituted this hostility and how can you justify saying it was threatening - were you threatened, verbally or physically? Seems a bit much to claim someone wanted to actually threaten you - but please correct me if something actually happened. Could it just be you projecting your own biases a little bit?

YANBU, OP, glad it gave you an inkling. I’m Asian and I now no longer interact with people unless they initiate it. 80% of the time people are fine, but it’s not knowing when the 20% will happen that is the kicker.