Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

I think I've just experienced what it's like in England..

999 replies

Builtthiscityonsausagerolls · 25/11/2021 21:29

To not be a native English speaker.

My natural first language is Welsh. I went to an English university and obviously have a native proficiency in English but when chatting im more comfortable in Welsh.

So... I'm on a train in the Midlands with a friend. Had a chatty conversation with the conducter in English, guy sitting across from us very friendly. The we switched to Welsh and the difference in attitude was immediate. Felt very hostile. Very hard to explain, but as soon as we switched languages it became almost threatening?

I'm used to speaking Welsh in maybe more border towns (mainly chester) where its quite common, but thinking about it not in 'deep' England :) 😀

We keep going over it, but the change in attitude was definitely when we changed language. Is this really the experienced of non-English speakers? The hostility really was quite overt

OP posts:
WhenWillISleepThroughTheNight · 25/11/2021 22:09

Perhaps the man opposite suddenly had an itchy bum (or other private item). That would give a person a hostile face.

phishy · 25/11/2021 22:10

@Nimchinge

Thats really rude. I'm tri lingual and would never switch languages like that, unless I prefaced it by explaining to the non speaker that I needed to switch quickly for a specific reason. Its alienating and makes other people feel like an idiot. You were being a dick
Why would you preface it to a stranger you’ve never exchanged a word with?
ChargingBuck · 25/11/2021 22:11

@LittleDandelionClock

Since when did people speak Welsh in Chester? Confused
Since around 600 BC, @LittleDandelionClock.

Also, people might, for example, feel at perfect liberty to speak Cantonese in Egypt, or Xhosa in Germany.
The very idea! - I may have conniptions ...

DontGetYourKnickersInATwist · 25/11/2021 22:12

Of course it isn't rude to switch to your own language.

Can't think what the problem was. Maybe he was a bit paranoid and thought you were talking about him. Or maybe it was nothing to do with the language and he just didn't want to listen to people chatting on the train at all. Maybe he really hates the sound of the Welsh language...or maybe he speaks Welsh! What were you talking about? Maybe he understood you and got offended by something. Basically, who knows. Could be anything.

I'm Irish and it did bother me when I lived with Irish speakers when they would switch in front of guests of mine who weren't Irish and didn't have a single word of Irish. I thought it was rude actually and asked them to cut it out, as it did seem a bit rude, because we were all chatting. But this wasn't the case with you op, so I don't know why the man would have gone funny.

worriedatthemoment · 25/11/2021 22:12

How did his attitude change? You say you Spoke to him , then went on and spoke to your friend so presumably he just sat there then minding his own business

Sam020 · 25/11/2021 22:12

@Builtthiscityonsausagerolls

We didn't speak to him. We spoke to the conductor. He sat across from us, friendly smile. When conductor moved on We continued our conversation in Welsh. On a train in Birmingham. Just us two. When we switched from English to Welsh there was a notable hostility. Most responses agree that this is fine. I find it baffling that I'm being rude to a stranger by speaking my native language to my friend.
I never considered it might be rude to talk in a language that a stranger might not understand. I try and make it a point to talk to dc in my mother tongue because I want them to be bilingual but now that they are older I frequently switch to English when talking about anything more complex (as we are actually both more fluent in English). I then might switch back to my mother tongue again. DC these days naturally prefers talking in English so I might just reply in English as well. My point is switch back and forth between languages and it's never got anything to do with the strangers around us. I'd hate to think that someone took offense thinking that we are talking about them or trying to exclude them. But then why would a stranger care so much?
LittleDandelionClock · 25/11/2021 22:12

@ChargingBuck

Not any more they don't. You're wrong.

Gwrach · 25/11/2021 22:12

As a fluent Welsh speaker who has lived in Birmingham, I was once speaking to my mum on the phone in Welsh on the bus, and this guy was just staring at me. When I got off the phone he just said "I'm sorry but that sounded weird but amazing at the same time " 🤣

WestendVBroadway · 25/11/2021 22:12

I don't actually have a problem with you speaking to your friend in your mutual native language. However what you experienced sounds similar to what me and DH experienced while holidaying in Wales. We entered a pub where 90% of people were conversing in English. As soon as the customers and staff heard our English accents they all switched to speaking Welsh. Well why shouldn't they, we were in Wales? However we felt a similar hostility to how you felt. It was patently obviously that they wished to exclude us as they had been speaking English when we got there.

jesusmaryjosephandtheweedonkey · 25/11/2021 22:13

Maybe he spoke Welsh and was just listening in and disagreeing with what you was saying. I mean if he was from Chester, it's practically a second language 😂

Texasfucked · 25/11/2021 22:13

@BasiliskStare

30 years ago DH & I went into a shop and everyone switched from English to Welsh - their choice obviously - but it felt a bit strange

I would not be slightest bit threatening to you if you spoke Welsh but it can feel excluding the other way round.

Utter bollocks

An urban myth born of paranoia

I wish people would think critically about this statement, it makes zero sense for so many reasons

It's offensive and speaks to a certain mindset

LittleDandelionClock · 25/11/2021 22:13

@Builtthiscityonsausagerolls

We didn't speak to him. We spoke to the conductor. He sat across from us, friendly smile. When conductor moved on We continued our conversation in Welsh. On a train in Birmingham. Just us two. When we switched from English to Welsh there was a notable hostility. Most responses agree that this is fine. I find it baffling that I'm being rude to a stranger by speaking my native language to my friend.
You are just so insistent you were right - and this man who you rudely cut from the conversation was wrong.

Why did you even bother posting this thread?

This pisses me off so much when a thread goes like this...

OP: 'AIBU?'

mumsnet posters: 'YES'

OP: 'no I'm not, and you're all wrong.'

mumsnet posters: 'yeah but what about this and that...'

OP: 'Hang on while I add a few bits here and there and a disclaimer or two.'

mumsnet posters: 'Yep, you are still wrong.'

OP: 'No I'm not.'

Confused

Seriously, why bother posting the thread, when you insist you are right?

I'm out. Stupid pointless thread.

worriedatthemoment · 25/11/2021 22:13

Sorry you say you spike to the conductor and he smiled at you, then didn't make anymore conduct yoh just felt he was hostile , why ? Because he didn't smile again

AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken · 25/11/2021 22:14

How can a guy be “very friendly” and “threatening” without saying a word, moving or giving any clear signals?

Texasfucked · 25/11/2021 22:15

@WestendVBroadway

I don't actually have a problem with you speaking to your friend in your mutual native language. However what you experienced sounds similar to what me and DH experienced while holidaying in Wales. We entered a pub where 90% of people were conversing in English. As soon as the customers and staff heard our English accents they all switched to speaking Welsh. Well why shouldn't they, we were in Wales? However we felt a similar hostility to how you felt. It was patently obviously that they wished to exclude us as they had been speaking English when we got there.
More bollocks

FFS

EezyOozy · 25/11/2021 22:15

So you were sat around a table having a friendly chat with the person opposite. Then perhaps quite abruptly you turn to each other and start talking in Welsh, which was very rude. Talking in Welsh was not the rude bit. Suddenly excluding one person from what was a group conversation was the rude bit. And then you accuse the person left out of being hostile because they did.... well, basically nothing?

WrongWayApricot · 25/11/2021 22:15

To the people saying pp need to learn to read

Had a chatty conversation with the conducter in English, guy sitting across from us very friendly.

There is not only one way to read this sentence and it is the only sentence in the OP that describes who they were talking to.

ChargingBuck · 25/11/2021 22:16

Maybe he thought you were rude because you were being friendly but then proceeded to switch to a language that meant he was totally excluded from the conversation?

Strangers are not entitled to be included in conversations.
A friendly greeting or short chat does not entitle strangers to continued pleasantries of inclusion in conversation.

OP does not have to make any apology for speaking her native language with her friend, or not speak it because some random man she's never met before & will never meet again might not understand her.

phishy · 25/11/2021 22:17

@hassletassle

So you were sat around a table having a friendly chat with the person opposite. Then perhaps quite abruptly you turn to each other and start talking in Welsh, which was very rude. Talking in Welsh was not the rude bit. Suddenly excluding one person from what was a group conversation was the rude bit. And then you accuse the person left out of being hostile because they did.... well, basically nothing?
They didn’t talk to the guy opposite at all.
Bonnealle · 25/11/2021 22:18

Obviously you weren’t being rude. As you can see though, others on here thought they may think someone may have switched languages to talk about them. That wasn’t the case! But surely you can now see how that person may have perceived it - if others on here think that way too? Also, we all have no idea what’s going on in people’s lives. I have a terrible habit of replaying conversations in my head on the train, and I can’t help but do the facial expressions of my reactions. I apologise to anyone who has caught them and attributed them to what they were talking about!!

FOJN · 25/11/2021 22:19

I started this thread not to get into Welsh/English bunfight

A less goady thread title and OP might have helped.

Chloemol · 25/11/2021 22:19

Personally I think you were rude I used to work in a place where there were a number of the same nationality. They spoke in their language at lunch in the staff room and made it very uncomfortable for everyone who couldn’t speak that language as it was obvious on occasions they were talking about colleagues

If you had been chatting to the guy in English, why be so rude as to switch to Welsh, he must have felt really uncomfortable

.

twopennerth · 25/11/2021 22:19

I've had a really long day at work so my response is just a collection of passing thoughts rather than a formulated response to your AIBU...

I'm half Welsh, my family are all in South Wales (yes, I know there is a hug North/South divide in Wales in terms of speaking Welsh). The only people I've seen bristle to hearing spoken Welsh are people from South Wales. I remember this happening in my families local on the coast in South Wales and lots of suspicious whispering about the welsh speakers being 'Trogs'. On that basis I think you are BU with your insinuation that this kind of hostility is driven by being English. In my firsthand experience that isn't true.

Other random musing, I live in England, a good friend of mine is Lithuanian. Has a lot of parties. There seems to be a lot of sex segregation at the parties so if you're female you sit in the living room with the other women and kids and the men go out and growl at the barbecue. Every time I've been I've been the only English woman in the room. I have no clue what's being said. I smile and nod along. Once I got told off for not engaging more by a lady who told me "you need to learn Lithuanian".

So, again, your insinuation that what you experienced is some kind of one-way hostility perpetrated by English people does not match my experiences.

Do with that information as you will.

BlueTouchPaper · 25/11/2021 22:19

guy sitting across from us very friendly

He was being very friendly and you cut him out. There was no need to switch languages. It's rude in company you've been friendly with.

Luckyelephant1 · 25/11/2021 22:20

@Builtthiscityonsausagerolls dunno, your description of hostile doesn't sound that hostile to me tbh. You can't expect a complete stranger to continue smiling at you the whole journey and as for the staring, maybe he did think you were talking about him or maybe he was simply trying to work out what language you were speaking perhaps? I'm sure I've done that before. Or maybe you were speaking really loudly?

If you weren't having a conversation with him beforehand then of course it's not rude to be speaking your own language. Had you been in the middle of a conversation with him in English then suddenly switched to Welsh when talking to your friend then yes he probably would have thought you were talking about him but you say you didn't talk to him so that's fine. I'd forget about it tbh. Fwiw I speak another language and have never felt hostility towards me.