Why is MN so horrible to SAHMs?

[Sweak]

I'm sure this will go down like a lead balloon, but it's been bothering me.

Every post I see written by a sahm, no matter what her issue is, has at least 5 posters telling her she must get a job Or implying she's lazy and even worse 'contributes nothing.'

Lots of posts under the guise of telling women they need to protect themselves financially are criticising this choice (not always but many). I would never dream of criticising a mother for working so why is it acceptable to criticise those who decide to stay at home to be with their children? (I claim zero benefits fyi in case that's a suggestion). I accept that a very very long period out of work will leave you vulnerable if you split due pension, but 5 years or so? The pre school years...I don't think so. Obviously being a sahp is only going to work if you have a decent partner who shares income.

And finally so many posters implying that by being a sahm you are making it basically impossible to be employable ever again unless you run the PTA!

Full disclosure...I'm a sahm, and have been for four years, but I've decided to return to work. I've secured a job for sept (teacher), and got the second job I had an interview for so the suggestion sahm are making themselves unemployable for having a few years out doesn't ring true! However due to MN my confidence about getting a job was so low.

Can't we just support each others choices in life even if they differ to our own?

You have a professional career that you can return too and there are in diffrent areas a shortage of teachers. It is great that you have an interview and I hope it all goes well for you but surely you can see for women who aren't as educated as you or had a less skilled job being out of the workplace for four years could be detrimental to them. Lots of people will say that they should try and get jobs at supermarkets, as if it is that easy but when you have time restrictions on when you work and don't make enough to cover after school club then it gets tough.

I don't think it is wrong to point out the financial implications of being a sahp and the fact that longterm it can leave the sahp in a more vulnerable situation. It can obviously be done nicely but aibu is known for being rather blunt.

I've never been a SAHM but I'm having my second child this year so I might end up not returning to work (not sure yet). I will continue with my private tutoring (so won't exactly be a SAHM). I have had so many 'suggestions' from family about what is/isn't wise that I know everyone's views are going to be different. It's what works best for you that's important.

@Orangebug

Most MN posts which tell SAHMs to consider going back to work aren't criticising them for being lazy. They're trying to warn them not to leave themselves financially vulnerable if they split from their partner.

This has been my experience too. I havent see a single post to be honest where someone has been told they're lazy just because they're a SAHM.

As a side I do think there is some difference between someone who is qualified for a specific role like you being able to go back to it after just a few years (and where your role involves children) and someone who has few qualifications being able to do so or someone with a much larger gap.

@Sceptre86

You have a professional career that you can return too and there are in diffrent areas a shortage of teachers. It is great that you have an interview and I hope it all goes well for you but surely you can see for women who aren't as educated as you or had a less skilled job being out of the workplace for four years could be detrimental to them. Lots of people will say that they should try and get jobs at supermarkets, as if it is that easy but when you have time restrictions on when you work and don't make enough to cover after school club then it gets tough.

I don't think it is wrong to point out the financial implications of being a sahp and the fact that longterm it can leave the sahp in a more vulnerable situation. It can obviously be done nicely but aibu is known for being rather blunt.

I don't think you've read all my comments. I've made it clear it's not going to work for everyone. My point is MN, in my opinion, catastrophizes

It's not that SAHMs who are vulnerable aren't clever. It's that it's easy to sleepwalk into this situation in a mix of being in love, hearing the nonsense that "we don't need a piece of paper to prove our love", the strong urge to be with your child as much as possible, etc etc. That's why we get threads like this all the time. It's a common problem. Dismissing it as "faux concern" is to dismiss the reality; even if the posters do mean it as a criticism, that doesn't mean they're wrong. It happens frequently. Expect a site full of women to be aware and mindful of it.

And of course many SAHMs aren't vulnerable at all, but those ones don't tend to post asking for help because they're stuck financially.

Supporting yourself and your kids is the default requirement for a grown up. We are all expected to earn our own living. You may be able to find a personal arrangement within your family so you don't have to, or you may be unable to due to childcare costs etc, but providing food and shelter somehow is the very first need for anyone. It's important to make sure you are protected, "faux concern" or not.

Agreed on the longer gap causing a problem. I teach sixth form only so I don't think the working with children bit has had much impact though

I think there are some people who love to be smug about their situation and put others down, not just about this issue but about any issue on here. Like, I would never get into a relationship with an abusive man, I would never get involved with a man with children, I would never marry a man with a difficult mother, etc, etc. It either involves a colossal lack of empathy that someone might be different from them, (be brought up in a different way, have a different personality, have a different life path etc), or a certain smugness about themselves, and sometimes both.

Not everyone has the skills to get a job that's easy to fit around children. Not everyone is efficient and capable enough to be able to do it all. Not everyone has family support. Some people have mental or physical health conditions that make it difficult to do it all and may not want to share that with others. Being in an abusive relationship makes it all harder. Not everyone has the same easy children who sleep through the night from day one, etc, etc.

People who start their posts, I would never or it suits me or I couldn't, tend to want to put others down. I've seen it again and again. I've been both a working parent and a SAHM and honestly never once was I criticised (even implicitly) or was given the side eye or ignored at parties etc when I said I was WOH but definitely noticed it as a SAHM.

I think it's great when people enjoy their job and do all the household stuff and manage it easily. But for those that don't, it's surely better to be kind. Someone starting threads on here where they're struggling usually needs support. Just because you might also need support in your circumstances or even because you're managing well obviously doesn't give you carte blanche to have a go.

Some people clearly are trying to be helpful when they suggest that someone gets back to work when they're in a vulnerable financial position, but others are clearly being nasty and snidey and it's disingenuous to pretend that it doesn't exist, just because you don't do it.

@Veronika13

But my thoughts on the topic: It is truly terrifying (no exaggeration) to read on here about a woman being deeply unhappy in a relationship (sometimes abusive) and saying she can't leave because she has no finances. 😥

It's suffocating to read. It must be awful to feel so trapped

Agree with this. There is a possibility my husband will become a SAHD in the future and if he does, I will factor into our budget being able to pay him money monthly just for him.

This has been my experience too. I havent see a single post to be honest where someone has been told they're lazy just because they're a SAHM.

You must have missed this comment

I won't lie either. I don't care if its judgey, I think it's kind of bone idle to not work at all when children are at school for 30 hours a week.

OP, the pile-on that you describe happens on pretty much every thread: see the stupidity of the birth control comments on the accidental pregnancy threads. It's pointless to discuss condoms now!

SAHMs who are in a safe and secure position are not posting about anything to do with their situations and are not being told to get a job. The subset you see on MN are generally having relationship troubles - financial abuse, unmarried, insecure, no career to fall back on.

Lots of women juggle a period of sah with periods of woh. With few exceptions, these women - including you - lose out financially because of it. It's just that in your case, the relatively minor financial loss is unlikely to matter, and of course being a sahm has enormous benefits that can't be quantified by a £.

You are on here arguing that sahms get a hard time on here. They should. It's a risk for the majority - I don't think that you take on board how privileged your situation is. The choice should be challenged and poked at and scrutinised before taking that leap of faith.

If it is the right choice (or in plenty of cases - medical problems, severe SEN - the only choice) then great. Enjoy. Fabulous. There is no moral superiority to be had in woh.

I think SAHM decision as a parent to an 11 month old evolves into a very different kettle of fish when said child is 5 or 15. It’s worth ‘talking it through’ with people on the start of the journey - not in the sense of knocking them - but supporting them to make savvy choices - including insisting on full legal status with eg mortgage docs - and considering how to keep their professional profile employable.

@Sweak

Agreed on the longer gap causing a problem. I teach sixth form only so I don't think the working with children bit has had much impact though

That's fair. The people I know who haven't had as many issues going back tend to be professionals and with shorter gaps. It is something I have thought about in terms of part time work - couldn't afford to drop out of work entirely as I am main earner. For my role, even part time work would still leave me at a significant detriment progression wise which sucks.

To be honest all that is important is what people are happy with and that they've thought things through - I dont just mean in terms of SAHP. Working as much as I do has consequences I've had to really consider.

My point is MN, in my opinion, catastrophizes

MN is almost always on clean-up duty after the catastrophe has happened. The catastrophes are commonplace.

@Kottbullar

This has been my experience too. I havent see a single post to be honest where someone has been told they're lazy just because they're a SAHM.

You must have missed this comment

I won't lie either. I don't care if its judgey, I think it's kind of bone idle to not work at all when children are at school for 30 hours a week.

Clearly I have rose tinted glasses as I don't always RTFT

@Grumblesigh

OP, the pile-on that you describe happens on pretty much every thread: see the stupidity of the birth control comments on the accidental pregnancy threads. It's pointless to discuss condoms now!

SAHMs who are in a safe and secure position are not posting about anything to do with their situations and are not being told to get a job. The subset you see on MN are generally having relationship troubles - financial abuse, unmarried, insecure, no career to fall back on.

Lots of women juggle a period of sah with periods of woh. With few exceptions, these women - including you - lose out financially because of it. It's just that in your case, the relatively minor financial loss is unlikely to matter, and of course being a sahm has enormous benefits that can't be quantified by a £.

You are on here arguing that sahms get a hard time on here. They should. It's a risk for the majority - I don't think that you take on board how privileged your situation is. The choice should be challenged and poked at and scrutinised before taking that leap of faith.

If it is the right choice (or in plenty of cases - medical problems, severe SEN - the only choice) then great. Enjoy. Fabulous. There is no moral superiority to be had in woh.

To be honest, why SHOULD people get a hard time over a choice? And why should the decision be POKED at? I don't really get that. Why is it for someone else to do that?

I totally agree that there are positives and negatives to any decision and in the context of someone asking for advice or responses on a topic then yes, give them. But I don't think its a case of SHOULD is it? And if it is, presumably you'd fairly think any choice anyone makes should be scrutinised in such a way?

I don't always understand the argument that woh protects women in the event of a split. Many jobs are low paid and insecure, not everyone has a meaningful career - if a marriage ended a wohp could be just as screwed financially since both partners needed to work in the first place to make ends meet. Even working ft can't always compensate for the cost of a divorce.

Sah is often referred to as being anti feminist, but there are lots of women who would call themselves feminist, who have bought into the capitalist system and whose nice careers and work/family balance relies on the underpaid and undervalued work of other women. That isn't anymore of a feminist choice than sah.
If the feminist argument is the main concern those women, instead of lecturing sahp for their choices, would actively campaign for better financial protection for divorced women and better pay and working conditions for all women.

Clearly I have rose tinted glasses as I don't always RTFT

I think most women just want to protect other women…. But not all, as others have mentioned there are quite a lot of those ‘my child should see me work - that is, do real work’ posts …

@Grumblesigh

OP, the pile-on that you describe happens on pretty much every thread: see the stupidity of the birth control comments on the accidental pregnancy threads. It's pointless to discuss condoms now!

SAHMs who are in a safe and secure position are not posting about anything to do with their situations and are not being told to get a job. The subset you see on MN are generally having relationship troubles - financial abuse, unmarried, insecure, no career to fall back on.

Lots of women juggle a period of sah with periods of woh. With few exceptions, these women - including you - lose out financially because of it. It's just that in your case, the relatively minor financial loss is unlikely to matter, and of course being a sahm has enormous benefits that can't be quantified by a £.

You are on here arguing that sahms get a hard time on here. They should. It's a risk for the majority - I don't think that you take on board how privileged your situation is. The choice should be challenged and poked at and scrutinised before taking that leap of faith.

If it is the right choice (or in plenty of cases - medical problems, severe SEN - the only choice) then great. Enjoy. Fabulous. There is no moral superiority to be had in woh.

I agree with most of your comments..I don't agree sahms get a hard time in order to challenge their thinking before taking a leap of faith...in some cases posters are doing this..I'm largely seeing horrible comments as it's a different choice.

@MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously

I don't always understand the argument that woh protects women in the event of a split. Many jobs are low paid and insecure, not everyone has a meaningful career - if a marriage ended a wohp could be just as screwed financially since both partners needed to work in the first place to make ends meet. Even working ft can't always compensate for the cost of a divorce.

Sah is often referred to as being anti feminist, but there are lots of women who would call themselves feminist, who have bought into the capitalist system and whose nice careers and work/family balance relies on the underpaid and undervalued work of other women. That isn't anymore of a feminist choice than sah.
If the feminist argument is the main concern those women, instead of lecturing sahp for their choices, would actively campaign for better financial protection for divorced women and better pay and working conditions for all women.

This is a great post

Firstly why did you chose sahm and not parents? I think the same applies to both. But focussing on the SAHM The problem is and this is just a personal views is feminism want's women to take the important jobs and to lead in the workplace and to be independent. Obviously when a mother becomes a SAHM living off past assets (usually unlikely) or their partner's income this ceases to happen. Also you cannot expect equality if you enter the workplace at the same time as a woman who doesn't take parental break and expect to at the end of a 40 year career be on the same pay and experience levels of you had a 20 year gap in the middle. It may work for some jobs but software engineering for example you could easily find your skills are those of the past. I also think their is an element of encouragement to just not be reliant on a partner's income. Personally with current divorce rules I would never allow my partner to be a sahp (it would be a condition of having the baby) and I certainly wouldn't be one (I've fought hard for my career and societies expectations won't make me give it up) if we want kids it is equal parenting but both parties need to bring in the income.

would actively campaign for better financial protection for divorced women and better pay and working conditions for all women.

What makes you think they aren’t? I actively do this in the country I live in. Do you?

As someone else pointed out earlier, the default position for most adult humans on planet earth, is to be responsible for yourself. It’s on you to put food in your own belly, to put a roof over your own head. And if you produce offspring, it’s 50% your responsibility to do the same for them. Going to work isn’t ‘buying into the capitalist system’ - as if the vast majority of men or women have the luxury of such a choice. It’s a necessary function for survival for most people in the world, regardless of gender.

@Silvetmoon

I think most women just want to protect other women…. But not all, as others have mentioned there are quite a lot of those ‘my child should see me work - that is, do real work’ posts …

I think on here a lot of women only want to defend women who, whether the topic is clothing or childcare, have made the same choices as them.

Why don’t you come back in a year, OP, and tell us about the RL digs that you’ll start to notice once you return to work in September. The comments in the school newsletter about the parents who don’t do their bit to support the school with volunteering; the faux concern for the children who have to miss out on a workshop because their families can’t magic up an adult to accompany them on a term time afternoon.

@Whoarethewho

Firstly why did you chose sahm and not parents? I think the same applies to both. But focussing on the SAHM The problem is and this is just a personal views is feminism want's women to take the important jobs and to lead in the workplace and to be independent. Obviously when a mother becomes a SAHM living off past assets (usually unlikely) or their partner's income this ceases to happen. Also you cannot expect equality if you enter the workplace at the same time as a woman who doesn't take parental break and expect to at the end of a 40 year career be on the same pay and experience levels of you had a 20 year gap in the middle. It may work for some jobs but software engineering for example you could easily find your skills are those of the past. I also think their is an element of encouragement to just not be reliant on a partner's income. Personally with current divorce rules I would never allow my partner to be a sahp (it would be a condition of having the baby) and I certainly wouldn't be one (I've fought hard for my career and societies expectations won't make me give it up) if we want kids it is equal parenting but both parties need to bring in the income.

I don't think anyone would expect someone to be on the same pay as if they'd had a 20 year gap. By taking such a large gap I think you would expect not to be on such a high wage at the end of the 40 years

I chose sahm as it's largely what I see here. But yes it applies to both sahm and sand.

I respect your choice to work and parent. I would hope people could respect my choice to be at home for a few years