That women should not be banned from Social Media for asking the question ( Thread 4)

[Langrycleg]

Many women have been suspended from sm for asking the question:

“Do you believe that male sexed people should be allowed access to changing rooms and showers for female sexed people and teenagers?”
Seems like a perfectly reasonable question which we should be allowed to ask.

Let’s vote with our AIBU.

@Winesalot

I think it's perfectly okay for young queer people to talk about sexuality and how sexuality and attraction to different types of bodies might be socially produced - its been part of feminist discussion and analysis for decades.

I don't think it's okay for someone to accuse a lesbian of being transphobic for not wanting sex with a trans woman, I think it should be robustly challenged and I have seen that happen and been part of it on the rare occassions I've come across it. It is not mainstream trans ideology, it is a very fringe view, that's all I said, that doesn't mean I think it's okay. Talk about reaching.

It's not ok to say a male individual can be a lesbian. It's not just a question of accusing lesbians of transphobia.

@Datun

It's not ok to say a male individual can be a lesbian. It's not just a question of accusing lesbians of transphobia.

Well I think it is okay so there. And clearly so do lots of lesbians given that pretty much all mainstream lesbian organisations support trans women as women.

I see we’ve got the usual “fill the thread up with misogynistic nonsense and make ridiculously easily debunked spurious claims” JJ derailing tactics going on. Have we got to the bit about womb transplants yet?

"but they weren't actually forced to have sex so it doesn't count" No they were just called transphobes when they refused and were vilified on social media. But who cares just women after all!

That must be the same as all the rape and death threats then. They didn't carry out their threats so who cares eh, they were just upset at the nasty women asserting their boundaries.
Fucks me off that women are told they can't have boundaries until something bad has happened.

Sexual orientation is a protected category.
If a straight make tells lesbians that their sexual orientation is just a genital preference and they are a bigot for not having sex with a penis owner their misogyny and homophobia would rightly be exposed and dealt with so why is it somehow different if that same straight male calls themselves a women?

Bloody auto correct! Male

[quote jj1968]@Winesalot

I think it's perfectly okay for young queer people to talk about sexuality and how sexuality and attraction to different types of bodies might be socially produced - its been part of feminist discussion and analysis for decades.

I don't think it's okay for someone to accuse a lesbian of being transphobic for not wanting sex with a trans woman, I think it should be robustly challenged and I have seen that happen and been part of it on the rare occassions I've come across it. It is not mainstream trans ideology, it is a very fringe view, that's all I said, that doesn't mean I think it's okay. Talk about reaching.[/quote]
Not really reaching j j. Not at all. Maybe you should read it back. You certainly did not say 'it is not ok even as a fringe view' before I mentioned it. You implied that it is 'just young queer people' talking about sexuality etc.

Again though, you are completely minimising that it happens. And the impacts of these discussions you are minimising.

j j I am seeing these discussions between my teenager's friends. AT 14. Between young lesbians who regard themselves as 'queer'. I am telling you, this is causing young lesbians harm. I think you are quite wrongly minimising it because you, as a mature male, don't see it happening. Do you hang out with the young queer teens jj? do you see what they are consuming on social media.

You do seem to not be all that up to date with what is happening to young people who regard themselves as 'queer'.

You do seem to not be all that up to date with what is happening to young people who regard themselves as 'queer'.

Sorry, I am going to correct that.

You do seem to not be all that up to date with what is happening to young females who regard themselves as 'queer'.

This has been a pattern that regular posters have seen with your posts and commented on time and time again.

Well I think it is okay so there.

I don't, so there. Words mean things. A lesbian is a female person solely attracted to other female people.

Well I think it is okay so there.

And who benefits if young queer people talk about sexuality and how sexuality and attraction to different types of bodies might be socially produced and persuade young queer females that not wanting sex with a girl dick is transphobic and how young lesbians are treated on social media as transphobia for not wanting dick?

treated horrifically on social media

And I can tell you, those videos get shared far and wide between 'young queer' females. Stop minimising this.

I am seeing these discussions between my teenager's friends. AT 14. Between young lesbians who regard themselves as 'queer'. I am telling you, this is causing young lesbians harm.

Why is them regarding themselves as queer causing them harm?

If anyone would like to hear Helen speak about her recent experiences, we're doing a special episode of 'The Mess We're In' tomorrow at 3.30pm with Sarah Phillimore, who has also been thrown off Twitter for dubious reasons.

*jj1968

Datun
It's not ok to say a male individual can be a lesbian. It's not just a question of accusing lesbians of transphobia.

Well I think it is okay so there.

I know you do. Which is why you claiming that tw pressurising lesbians into sex, is a 'fringe thing', is ludicrous.

Because, you know, male born individuals never pressure female born individuals into sex.

Sexual orientation is another protected characteristic, like sex. Again, you don't get to dismantle the protections that women, lesbians, and homosexuals have fought for.

And who benefits if young queer people talk about sexuality and how sexuality and attraction to different types of bodies might be socially produced

Disabled people, people with body shapes that do not conform to the norm, intersex people, people who do not meet idealised patriarchal standards of beauty, gender nonconforming people, and yes trans people - I'd say it's a vital part of feminist discourse that these things should be discussed. Recognising and discussing how patriarchy shapes us and indeed even our sexualities and how this marginalises those who deviate from the white, skinny, heterosexual, non trans, non disabled norm is not demanding sex from people.

@jj1968

I am seeing these discussions between my teenager's friends. AT 14. Between young lesbians who regard themselves as 'queer'. I am telling you, this is causing young lesbians harm.

Why is them regarding themselves as queer causing them harm?

The amount of pressure applied to young females who don’t want sex with a male at all is what I am talking about. It is happening that these young females are convincing each other that it is transphobic to not want sex with a transgirl or a transwoman.

This is Dr Z and Alex Drummond both of whom claim to be women. Would any of you be happy at the thought of these two sharing a changing room with you or your mothers/daughters/nieces/aunties?

If anyone would like to hear Helen speak about her recent experiences, we're doing a special episode of 'The Mess We're In' tomorrow at 3.30pm with Sarah Phillimore, who has also been thrown off Twitter for dubious reasons.

Thank you Glinner.

@Merida46

This is Dr Z and Alex Drummond both of whom claim to be women. Would any of you be happy at the thought of these two sharing a changing room with you or your mothers/daughters/nieces/aunties?

Or telling your lesbian daughters that they are also lesbians.

I think there is a social experiment people who read this can do.

Go to a Reddit lesbian sub forum and ask if it is ok to only be interested in biological female lesbians. Say that you have a problem with the concept of lady d*ck. See what happens and what the moderators do.

Then report back.

The amount of pressure applied to young females who don’t want sex with a male at all is what I am talking about. It is happening that these young females are convincing each other that it is transphobic to not want sex with a transgirl or a transwoman.

We've all seen this. jj apparently hasn't. Perhaps jj isn't as much in the club as jj thinks, and missed all the memos.

@jj1968

And who benefits if young queer people talk about sexuality and how sexuality and attraction to different types of bodies might be socially produced

Disabled people, people with body shapes that do not conform to the norm, intersex people, people who do not meet idealised patriarchal standards of beauty, gender nonconforming people, and yes trans people - I'd say it's a vital part of feminist discourse that these things should be discussed. Recognising and discussing how patriarchy shapes us and indeed even our sexualities and how this marginalises those who deviate from the white, skinny, heterosexual, non trans, non disabled norm is not demanding sex from people.

How about you answer that whole post.

and persuade young queer females that not wanting sex with a girl dick is transphobic and how young lesbians are treated on social media as transphobia for not wanting dick?

Here's a workshop for transwomen on 'overcoming the cotton ceiling'

Run by planned parenthood, I believe. That 'niche' organisation that is so niche I've even heard of it from way over here on the other side of the Atlantic.

@ArabellaScott

Here's a workshop for transwomen on 'overcoming the cotton ceiling'

Run by planned parenthood, I believe. That 'niche' organisation that is so niche I've even heard of it from way over here on the other side of the Atlantic.

It was a workshop of about 6 people ten years ago that gender critical people have turned into evidence of a vast conspiracy.