That women should not be banned from Social Media for asking the question ( Thread 4)

[Langrycleg]

Many women have been suspended from sm for asking the question:

“Do you believe that male sexed people should be allowed access to changing rooms and showers for female sexed people and teenagers?”
Seems like a perfectly reasonable question which we should be allowed to ask.

Let’s vote with our AIBU.

Do you not understand that there are hardly any women who would turn out and say excuse me, I'm not comfortable can you leave?

Hardly any? Are you sure or is this middle class projection? I grew up with plenty of women who were more than capable of telling a creepy man to fuck off up to and including thowing a punch if necessary. That's not to undermine the fact that those women were also vulnerable to male violence, and knew it, but the claim that hardly any woman would ever say they were uncomfortable to a man really does not square with the strong, confident women I have been around my whole life who are more than capable of articulating themselves.

OP yanbu

What I've noticed about purveyors of "fake news" and misleading information is that they aren't deterred by people calling them out and even demonstrating that they are wrong. They only care that people see the barrage of misleading information.

Something to bear in mind when debating with activists online.

You don't realise that how a women might appear in public has little to do with how they act when alone with a man and are scared?

It's the rape myth ... most women don't fight

@jj1968

Do you not understand that there are hardly any women who would turn out and say excuse me, I'm not comfortable can you leave?

Hardly any? Are you sure or is this middle class projection? I grew up with plenty of women who were more than capable of telling a creepy man to fuck off up to and including thowing a punch if necessary. That's not to undermine the fact that those women were also vulnerable to male violence, and knew it, but the claim that hardly any woman would ever say they were uncomfortable to a man really does not square with the strong, confident women I have been around my whole life who are more than capable of articulating themselves.

I should add to that before the thread dies, I'm not undermining those women who can't who have gone through trauma etc. I've been very nervous for exactly those reasons around some men. But the idea that almost all women are permanently vulnerable and terrified does not strike me as very feminist. I know plenty of women who'd be far more confident tell a man what for than I would in many situations.

Rape myth again

Women who have never experienced violence will still react in a none aggressive way as an innate self defence mechanism

Feminism has to recognise the real differences between men and women

I'm not convinced you understand women particularly well, jj. I have never punched a creepy man and I don't know any other woman who has. Because most women and girls are intimidated by creepy men and often getting into a confrontation with a man doesn't end well for us. Even when it starts out as "good natured" compliments, they can turn nasty quickly in my experience and that of other women on FWR.

Perhaps you think we should all toughen up and stop being cowards, is that that the gist of this observation?

Apologies for that then Fasted that must have been my assumption based upon you talking about your sd having ongoing counselling.

@Quaagars

Somebody on Twitter posts about a thread on here? So? I swear sometimes people think it's a private little space on here, it's open to all and there'll be lots of people on here with different views and takes on things. Even MN themselves tweets threads, and MN Madness is a pretty funny piss take account where people lift threads from here to comment on.

Ok Quaag 😉

But the idea that almost all women are permanently vulnerable and terrified does not strike me as very feminist.

No one has claimed that Women are 'permanently vulnerable and terrified'.

But the idea that almost all women are permanently vulnerable and terrified does not strike me as very feminist

Yet we are told on a daily fucking basis about the permanently vulnerable and terrified transwomen aren't we?

@midgedude

Rape myth again

Women who have never experienced violence will still react in a none aggressive way as an innate self defence mechanism

Feminism has to recognise the real differences between men and women

We're not talking about being raped we're talking about a man in the toilets that makes them uncomfortable. When a man tried to force his cock inside me, something I had specifically told him I didn't want him to do, I froze at first, I nearly went along with it because I was so shocked, then managed to wriggle free and left sharply and he didn't pursue it or me thankfully. When a group of men beat the living shit out of me I didn't fight back I begged. So I'm well aware what can happen in those situations but that does not mean that almost all women are too terrfied to tell a man he is making them uncomfortable.

I'm not sure I'll forget that last "female presenting" male in the ladies (a male person wearing clothes coded stereotypically feminine). Public space, long queue of women and children. Male click clacks in on high heels, then, without hesitation sweeps past the queue and disappears into the toilet a woman has just vacated.

Male socialisation is a bugger to shake off.

It's the rape myth ... most women don't fight

Yes, because not fighting means he might just not kill you.

Well Charlie, what do you expect them to do? Queue up with all the support humans?

We're not talking about being raped we're talking about a man in the toilets that makes them uncomfortable. When a man tried to force his cock inside me, something I had specifically told him I didn't want him to do, I froze at first, I nearly went along with it because I was so shocked, then managed to wriggle free and left sharply and he didn't pursue it or me thankfully. When a group of men beat the living shit out of me I didn't fight back I begged. So I'm well aware what can happen in those situations but that does not mean that almost all women are too terrfied to tell a man he is making them uncomfortable.

I'm sorry you have experienced these things JJ.

But the fact that you feel that women ought to defend themselves when being attacked by predatory males doesn't mean we should accept men into our safe spaces.

None of your arguments carry any logic.

New thread??

Unless you get one of the ones who likes queueing up with the support humans.

So they can swap lipsticks & arrange a slumber party with a pillow fight.

When a man forced his cock inside me, I froze completely as a normal response. It was entirely academic whether I did or did not, because he had complete physical power over me at the time.

Unless you get one of the ones who likes queueing up with the support humans.

So they can swap lipsticks & arrange a slumber party with a pillow fight.

Oh yes! So much fun.

If I feel scared I will not try to fight a man

I won't tell him to F off

It doesn't matter if it's rape or a trip to the loo.

Your claim that you know plenty of women who would do exactly that

you don't . That is the rape myth.

Hardly any? Are you sure or is this middle class projection?

I can't speak for other women, but I don't come from a middle class background.

@CharlieParley

I'm not sure I'll forget that last "female presenting" male in the ladies (a male person wearing clothes coded stereotypically feminine). Public space, long queue of women and children. Male click clacks in on high heels, then, without hesitation sweeps past the queue and disappears into the toilet a woman has just vacated.

Male socialisation is a bugger to shake off.

There are times when happening to have a small supersoaker in one's capacious old-lady handbag along with the cough-lozenges and the knitting and all the photos of grandchildren in an album is a really tempting thought, aren't there. Cubicles rarely have walls up to the ceiling and down to the floor, and toilet doors almost never do.