To ask about JK Rowling - can someone tell me what happened?

[christmaspigeon]

Just that really. I like her. I like how she gives so much for charity and how she put Trump in his place, but I know people's views on her have changed. Something to do with trans comments?? Can someone explain (in really simple language!) what happened? Thank you!

@Thewithesarehere

She would be the one that needs to provide evidence proving that what she said wasn't transphobic. She will take them to court saying that they insulted and slurred her name and brand. And the TWAW lot will have to prove they DID NOT insult her and that they actually had a point due to xyz. Will be one hell of a trial if we see Rowling take the stand and explain things the way she does.

No , they wouldn't have to prove that they said did not insult her. It would be for her to prove that what they said was untrue and that it damaged her reputation.

Fucking hell.

Innocent until proven guilty. That's actually the way it works. You don't have to prove your innocence - the accuser has to prove your guilt.

It's very worrying that people don't know this extremely basic principle.

The actual law matters as much as biology I see...

@Belladonna12
If you followed Johny Depp’s case, you would know that taking someone to court without evidence is a very bad idea. It’s opposite for Rowling. In Depp’s case, The Sun and others had truckloads of stuff on him to get away with calling him a wife-beater, which lead to his dismissal from Rowling’s franchise. Depp failed to prove them wrong.
In Rowling’s case, she will have tons of evidence to show TWAW have harassed her and are slurring her brand. And TWAW will have f*ck all to show anything remotely coherent.
To top it all, she has enough money to drag it all for any number of years on her own terms.

Was it this bit that reveals this secret fear and/or hatred?

Again and again I’ve been told to ‘just meet some trans people.’ I have: in addition to a few younger people, who were all adorable, I happen to know a self-described transsexual woman who’s older than I am and wonderful

Or maybe this bit was the terrible bit

I believe the majority of trans-identified people not only pose zero threat to others, but are vulnerable for all the reasons I’ve outlined. Trans people need and deserve protection

Which is the bit that they’re going to point to?

After seeing the impact of this f*uckwittery on children, I am quite eager to see a few of TWAW in court. Including some celebrities who thought they could jump on the bandwagon to look trendy.

Actually I have just checked and the burden of proof in the UK is on the defendant.

I hope she does go to court.
Imagine the court transcripts.
Haven't been this excited since Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows was released.
Tbh I might write the fanfiction version myself.

@Belladonna12

Actually I have just checked and the burden of proof in the UK is on the defendant.

I don’t want to post anymore facepalm emojis than other posters have. But can you pause for an instant and think who will be the defendant in Rowling vs TWAW?

@TheBuffster

I hope she does go to court. Imagine the court transcripts. Haven't been this excited since Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows was released. Tbh I might write the fanfiction version myself.

Now THAT’S some idea! Brilliant!

@TheBuffster

I hope she does go to court. Imagine the court transcripts. Haven't been this excited since Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows was released. Tbh I might write the fanfiction version myself.

Please let Steph be the lawyer for the defence!

please let Steph be the lawyer for the defence!
Who is Steph?

[quote Elfinghecking]**@Belladonna12 totally agree. It’s why I try to avoid getting drawn in to stuff like this because people who are never going to change their minds pile on to one or
Two posters.
Read what’s out there, form an opinion, end of.[/quote]
@Elfinghecking

@Belladonna12

Yep - have said for ages that you just have to make our own mind up, or "see" it for yourselves.
No amount of arguing with brick walls does anything, it's utterly pointless.

I don’t want to post anymore facepalm emojis than other posters have.
But can you pause for an instant and think who will be the defendant in Rowling vs TWAW?

What makes you think I don't know who the defendant will be.

medium.com/@jben9581/trans-men-and-non-binary-people-are-valid-too-317ff14174c9

writes "I welcome any and all comments from anyone willing to actually discuss this. Terfs, please do not bother. I meant human beings."

Personally, I would reckon that suggesting a person is not even of the human species if he or she holds beliefs with which one does not agree is about as exclusionary as it comes. Sort of akin to a white supremacist suggesting that black people are not human beings.

@Thewithesarehere

please let Steph be the lawyer for the defence! Who is Steph?

Stephanie Hayden, expert on libel law.

I'll start a new JK thread for it 😂
Totally disingenuous of course.
Bagsy surprise witness Tom Felton (I think I can capture Malfoy really well!)

@Belladonna12

*I don’t want to post anymore facepalm emojis than other posters have. But can you pause for an instant and think who will be the defendant in Rowling vs TWAW?*

What makes you think I don't know who the defendant will be.

Then if you know, can you tell us which top three pieces of evidence you will show to court to prove she is a transphobe?

@TheBuffster

I'll start a new JK thread for it 😂 Totally disingenuous of course. Bagsy surprise witness Tom Felton (I think I can capture Malfoy really well!)

And I will start a thread to get you banned from Mumsnet if you fail to post the link to that thread on here.

This thread keeps on giving. Well, everything but answers that is .....

So I take it that elf and belladonna are both very comfortable with the changes to the guidance the Scottish government made that prompted Joanne Rowling’s response. Nothing at all the matter with allowing provisions set aside for females to be eroded by males ( often with a privileged background) who have identified as being more oppressed than actual females.

Because that is just one of the events that she responded to.

Another was the use of inclusive language which in effect excludes more people through lack of understanding the terms relate to them. But completely focus on inclusion for transmen at the expense of people who do not know functional Terms such as menstruator, cervix haver etc mean ‘them’ is also ok?

When there are other alternatives that mean the word woman and girl can be used as well as the functional term etc.

We have to assume because, you both cannot even answer these simple questions. Or, is raising these questions deemed transphobic by elf and belladoona.

@Elfinghecking

‘ Another one running away as soon as presented with questions or statement they know they cannot reasonably answer. ’

God knows, I have tried over the years on here. Really tried. In fact one of the reasons I now frequently change my user name. Some posters on MN can be absolutely rabid when presented with views or arguments that don’t align to their own.

Same, know from experience Also, how the heck is it "running away" - you're STILL on the thread, but people have fingers in ears to what you and others, are saying, I mean WTF

Then if you know, can you tell us which top three pieces of evidence you will show to court to prove she is a transphobe?

And why will I need to provide anything to the court to prove she is a transfer?

🤦🏼‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️
Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.

You're not going to get very far as a defendant in a libel case if you can't prove the truth of your claim.

transfer? transphobe. Dictation software not working properly...