To ask about JK Rowling - can someone tell me what happened?

[christmaspigeon]

Just that really. I like her. I like how she gives so much for charity and how she put Trump in his place, but I know people's views on her have changed. Something to do with trans comments?? Can someone explain (in really simple language!) what happened? Thank you!

Now now thewith you are not mortally offended unless I have misunderstood the meaning of the word mortally

It's Dehumanising language , it's insulting and exclusive as it excludes women who don't breast feed through choice, women who don't menstruate for various medical reasons

However since you are a woman you know you will survive because this ( men thinking of women as sub human ) has happened to women throughout history

Woman is simply the word for an adult human female. Like hen or doe.

@Whiskandfettle

No, she didn't say this. She was talking about the ramifications of self-id (though she did highlight that even now it's possible to get a GRC without making physical changes), and I don't think she mentioned toilets or changing rooms.

There’s a lot she didn’t mention. If she could clarify that it would help understand if she is transphobic.

JLR also supported Maya Forstater who lost her tribunal because the judge said her approach was not compatible with dignity and human rights in relation to trans people.

I think she is less interested in convincing every last person that she is not transphobic than she is in highlighting these issues to people who aren't aware of them.

I agree with her on Maya Forstater and think it was wonderful of her to stick her neck out to speak up for this unknown, ordinary woman. Maya is appealing that judgment.

I know the meaning of bitchy. That’s why my question was how is not bitchy to call me a menstruator? So is it not bitchy? I find it very bitchy. Why don’t you?

The term "people who menstruate" was used. I am a person and don't see anything malicious or spiteful about calling me that.

I think she is less interested in convincing every last person that she is not transphobic than she is in highlighting these issues to people who aren't aware of them.

And in that she's done a grand job.

I don't want to be known as a 'person who menstruates' or a 'vulva haver'. I find the erasure of the word 'woman' quite upsetting. This may sound hyperbolic if you haven't been keeping up with the creeping changes to language, but it really isn't.

Why should I have to be known as a 'menstruator' or 'bleeder' because some female-bodied people prefer to deny their biology and wish to identify as men? Why does my discomfort matter less than theirs? How is JKR being 'bitchy' by drawing attention to the erasure of the word 'women'?

And also, as has been pointed out by PPs, this is less to do with the feelings of FtM transitioners and more to do with MtF transitioners who do not have periods. Daniel Radcliffe's response was not 'transmen are men' (as you might expect) but 'transwomen are women'.

The term "people who menstruate" was used. I am a person and don't see anything malicious or spiteful about calling me that.

I don't see anything malicious or spiteful in calling the group of people who menstruate female or women. They are. Because only women and girls menstruate.

I'm sorry if that upsets some women who don't want to be women, but it upsets me to be described as an actual person with dehumanising language such as 'menstruator' or 'birthing body'.

Ok but there will be a way to describe this that includes everyone it needs to and doesn’t offend like: ‘women and all people with a cervix‘ or something.

It can be done in a way that isn’t just an excuse to have a dig at trans people.

Ok but there will be a way to describe this that includes everyone it needs to and doesn’t offend like: ‘women and all people with a cervix‘ or something.

The article JK mentioned didn't do that though, did it? So why shouldn't she point it out?

Skipping over the fact that the word is intrinsically sexist, this is the meaning of bitchy according to Google.

“malicious or spitefully critical”

You can only apply that meaning to JKR’s words if you think that obscuring the existence of sex is benign, which it isn’t, and you ignore her feminism and her experience with charities that support women. (And I mean work - she doesn’t just write cheques).

It can be done in a way that isn’t just an excuse to have a dig at trans people.

I agree.

And I think you'll find that wouldn't be satisfactory because it excludes males from being women.

You can only apply that meaning to JKR’s words if you think that obscuring the existence of sex is benign,

This. Approximately 40% of women don't know what a cervix is, or presumably that they have one.

It's not benign. And many women aren't having it.

It can be done in a way that isn’t just an excuse to have a dig at trans people.

If describing women as, um, 'women' is having 'a dig at transpeople' then by that logic, transgenderism is 'anti-women'?

@Belladonna12

I know the meaning of bitchy. That’s why my question was how is not bitchy to call me a menstruator? So is it not bitchy? I find it very bitchy. Why don’t you?

The term "people who menstruate" was used. I am a person and don't see anything malicious or spiteful about calling me that.

Well, I am quite offended that you don’t see the offended in this word. Where is the outrage for me? And you didn’t tell me why we can’t all be called poopers?

Oh I really hate being called person who menstruates

Partly because when younger my periods were horrific and have left some damage inside me, so I hate the whole period thing. Linked to body dysmorphia

Partly because for centuries women have been seen as baby carriers and nothing else

Partly because the menstruatal process has been , and in many parts of the world , is seen as a reason to exclude women, seen as dirty

So if you Bella don't understand the insults laden in the phrase , would you understand that if someone called you stupid that it was an insult?

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Ok but there will be a way to describe this that includes everyone it needs to and doesn’t offend like: ‘women and all people with a cervix‘ or something.

The article JK mentioned didn't do that though, did it? So why shouldn't she point it out?

Well, yeah. The article was omitting women.

Was the article 'bitchy'?

The ra ra TWAW Women's March actually tweeted that there were x number of "menstruators" in Parliament in 1973, with no knowledge of who was and wasn't menstruator. They were literally using it as a shorthand for "women".

I don't don't menstruate any more- I am post menopausal.
My sister doesn;t have a cervix- she had a hysterectomy for medical reasons.
Does that mean we are not women?

Describing women as 'enstruators' rather than 'women' suits transwomen because it keeps up the idea that transwomen are also 'women'.

Describing men as 'men' rather than 'prostate havers' or 'penis owners' suits transwomen because it keeps up the illusion that transwomen (who do have prostates and penises but shhhhhhh!) are also women.

And trans men do not wish to be referred to as women. There was no need to do it.

Yet, as was discussed many pages ago on this thread, where is the adoption of using acceptable alternative phrasing such as

• women, girls, transmen and non-binary?
• women and other (insert whatever dehumanizing term that they find acceptable yet we don’t e.g. cervix havers)?

Or if we must just leave it as

-female?

That is what Joanne Rowling was saying with that tweet. Don’t remove the word women or girls.

Her tweet was

‘People who menstruate.’ I’m sure there used to be a word for those people. Someone help me out. Wumben? Wimpund? Woomud?

Opinion: Creating a more equal post-COVID-19 world for people who menstruate

The tweet even included the headline she referred to and linked to the article.

Why effectively erase ‘women’ making the message being communicated so much less effect for the very many more women and girls who do not know the message is for them? There are arguably more women and girls missing the needed message than transmen. I even gave the example of a young girl, they would not understand what ‘people who menstruate’ or ‘menstruator’ refers to. I know this because my own daughter did not.

But why then is it considered ‘inclusive’ to remove the words that signal that this message is for them too?

Means that a greater number of people have now been excluded.

Oh and considering the countries this particular article was referring to, this headline is incredibly dehumanising. Like the pregnancy group referring to ‘black birthing bodies’. Or can you not see the relevance there either....

And why wasn’t the official Movember Twitter account bombarded with tweets like these for failing to acknowledge that in this brave new world, women can have pro states too I wonder?

medium.com/@rebeccarc/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-activists-a-story-in-screenshots-78e01dca68d

Ah yes, 'black birthing bodies' was particularly grim. As if black women aren't dehumanised enough

@speakout

I don't don't menstruate any more- I am post menopausal. My sister doesn;t have a cervix- she had a hysterectomy for medical reasons. Does that mean we are not women?

For goodness sake. Not all women menstruate but only women menstruate.

I promise you, not one gender critical feminist believes that a woman who has had a hysterectomy is actually a man. Please stop with your straw man arguments.