To ask about JK Rowling - can someone tell me what happened?

[christmaspigeon]

Just that really. I like her. I like how she gives so much for charity and how she put Trump in his place, but I know people's views on her have changed. Something to do with trans comments?? Can someone explain (in really simple language!) what happened? Thank you!

She represents us!

I don't want 'coverage around' JKR - I want direct quotes of what she said that proves she is anti-trans!!

@TheChampagneGalop

This thread has been up for 3 days yet still screenshots and links to the terrible transphobic tweets JK are supposed to have written are mysteriously absent.

At this point I am genuinely salivating for some proper debate. However, what I think what's particularly sad is that the framing off trans people as such a persecuted minority has real world effects on groups that are actually vulnerable. I know I have a vested interest in it but it's awful how disabled, race, sex and homosexuality have been pushed out of the public sphere to make way for trans rights, which are, lets face it, less needed as they are based on ideological/psychological needs instead of real need. Eg compare the actual violence against women to violence of pronouns. Really grinds my gears how they think they are so hard done by when generally people bend over backwards to accommodate them.

MN can be absolutely rabid when presented with views or arguments that don’t align to their own.

I don’t disagree with that - parking threads can be brutal but you really haven’t explained why JKR is transphobic. Asserting that the word ‘woman’ refers to sex alone in a medical context is not transphobic.

(And it’s also not surprising from JKR - “fear of a name increases fear of the thing itself.”)

Sometimes the prevailing opinion on MN is the prevailing opinion because it is right. Blue badge parking spaces are not additional P&C parking and neutral medical terms don’t imply anything about your core identity.

when generally people bend over backwards to accommodate them.

I don’t think that’s true - people who are gnc often face discrimination. However that problem isn’t solved by shoving everyone into a gender box and ignoring sex.

Or more specifically, men having access, because if segregation is by gender, not sex, there is no clear boundary between woman/gender fluid/any other gender/men.

And let's not forget @merrymouse that much of the debate, in which JKR was participating, was in the context of proposals to change the Gender Recognition Act to allow self-identification.

And the 'policy capture' of many public organisations and companies which assumed that self-id was inevitably going to become law.

Added to that, the broad, but unlawful, replacement of 'sex' by 'gender' in many organisations' statements about equality & diversity.

For example, I work at a university and about 2 years ago I had to point out that the terms of reference for our faculty 'Inclusivity Committee' were wrong - they used 'gender', and I had to point out to HR practitioners that they'd got it wrong - that the 2010 Equalities Act specifies 'sex' not 'gender.' HR practitioners who were unaware of the law ...

@merrymouse

Transwomen having access to female only spaces such as safe houses.

Or more specifically, men having access, because if segregation is by gender, not sex, there is no clear boundary between woman/gender fluid/any other gender/men.

Thanks for clarifying my point

I'm just going by objectively how many new laws have been brought in to protect them, money sent to mermaids etc. The publicity and general support from the public cannot be underestimated.

Elfinghecking
"OP if you’re still knocking around I can send you some links to coverage around JKR that you might find interesting."

Would it be too much to ask you to share the "links" drectly to this thread?

Yes, I'd like to see those links @Elfinghecking

I see this disingenuous thread is still going on with people repeating themselves again and again. Regarding quotes, why would anyone bother to spend hours cutting and pasting them so that they could go over the same arguments for the millionth time with posters who aren't going to change their opinion. People can read what JK Rowling has written and make their own minds up. They don't have to prove anything.

Just one quote.
Hours and hours?
I mean how computer illiterate are you?

Ok I have read what jk has written and I can see nothing problematical. Guess that's sorted then

It's all odd. I've spent many hours of my life on MN arguing that something or other was racist/sexist/classist/disableist/anti-semitic or even transphobic. I always had plenty of words to find of my own to make my case in.

Not necessarily good words, but never the less, the case was made. I've never told someone that the -ism was self-evident and expected them to just believe me.

@Belladonna12 totally agree. It’s why I try to avoid getting drawn in to stuff like this because people who are never going to change their minds pile on to one or
Two posters.
Read what’s out there, form an opinion, end of.

@TheBuffster

Just one quote. Hours and hours? I mean how computer illiterate are you?

Trying to make people give one quote so that you can argue against it is a bit desperate .It is the totality of what she said that has made some people conclude that she is trans-phobic and not necessarily one comment.

Ah so she hasn't actually said anything transphobic that you can actually lay your finger on?

They don't have to prove anything

People who claim JKR has said hateful things jolly well do have to show that she has. Otherwise it's just libel.

The reason they're not backing up their claim isn't that copying and pasting is hard work.

It's because the things she's said are kind, thoughtful, right and true.

@midgebabe

Ah so she hasn't actually said anything transphobic that you can actually lay your finger on?

Its a shifting constellation of meaninglessness

@iguanadonna

They don't have to prove anything

People who claim JKR has said hateful things jolly well do have to show that she has. Otherwise it's just libel.

The reason they're not backing up their claim isn't that copying and pasting is hard work.

It's because the things she's said are kind, thoughtful, right and true.

No, they don't have to prove anything to you.

I have YET to see any original scientific references to back that Scientific American link upthread.
It’s a pattern. As soon as you request original scientific papers, TWAW lot disappears into you-know-where.
I wonder why.

If they want people to take them seriously they should at least try! I can't quite decide if I am meant to be rolling with laughter at this thread or if some people really believe she is transphobic

@Belladonna12 if that's how it works now then I could say you're transphobic, but I don't have to prove it. You just are and everyone has to believe me.

@midgebabe

If they want people to take them seriously they should at least try! I can't quite decide if I am meant to be rolling with laughter at this thread or if some people really believe she is transphobic

They probably don't care if you take them seriously. Why would your opinion be so important to them?

[quote DressingGownofDoom]@Belladonna12 if that's how it works now then I could say you're transphobic, but I don't have to prove it. You just are and everyone has to believe me. [/quote]
You can say that I'm transphobic without proving it!