To ask about JK Rowling - can someone tell me what happened?

[christmaspigeon]

Just that really. I like her. I like how she gives so much for charity and how she put Trump in his place, but I know people's views on her have changed. Something to do with trans comments?? Can someone explain (in really simple language!) what happened? Thank you!

@Elfinghecking

What 'anti-trans' thing are you referring to?

I'm sure she's aware some transmen still have periods and don't consider themselves women.

They can have whatever belief they desire. That doesn't eradicate the fact that they are biologically female and always will be. That does not allow for biological fact to be erased to save the feelings of those with deeply held beliefs. They will always be biologically female, whatever their gender choice and whatever their ability to menstruate are.

@Elfinghecking I find it difficult to see what her ex hitting her has got to do with any of the lovely trans people I know

She's not talking about the lovely trans people you know. I have never before come across a debate when one side (gender ideology proponents) combat arguments that have never made by the other side (gender critical feminists).

The argument is not about trans people being a threat. It is about allowing males, who as a population pose more of a threat to women than other women, into spaces where women are vulnerable. This is an obvious safeguarding risk. We have sex segregated spaces as preventative measure to stop the small number of predatory male sex offenders gaining access to women when they are vulnerable. If you believe that a male stating he is a woman, means he poses the same low threat as women do, then that is an extraordinary claim for which you need extraordinary evidence. Hard to do when there have already been cases of men sexually assaulting women having gained access to women only spaces by declaring that they are women. (Karen White/ Christopher Hambrook), nearly all sexual assaults recorded in changing rooms are in 'gender neutral (mixed sex) changing spaces. All of these women are women who would not have been assaulted if sex segregated spaces had been maintained.

This may be of interest to you too
www.feministcurrent.com/2020/09/13/protecting-men-at-the-womens-shelter/

I feel like I’ve answered OPs question. And tempting though it is to actually answer some of the questions being put to me I know from previous posts that it is utterly exhausting and pointless to start arguing with certain posters on MN about trans issues. So I won’t be.
OP can read the posts, use Google, and make her own mind up about JKR.

Right, so you're willing to slur JKR as "anti-trans" but when asked to give an example you say it's too exhausting for you to do Elfinghecking.

Transwomen having access to female only spaces such as safe houses.

Or more specifically, men having access, because if segregation is by gender, not sex, there is no clear boundary between woman/gender fluid/any other gender/men.

And tempting though it is to actually answer some of the questions being put to me I know from previous posts that it is utterly exhausting and pointless to start arguing with certain posters on MN about trans issues.

To be fair I can see that it’s exhausting to argue if you struggle with key legal concepts e.g. legislation applies to everyone, not just your lovely friends.

rather than sarcy tweets about the world 'women' not being used when talking about menstruation. I'm sure she's aware some transmen still have periods and don't consider themselves women.

And what about using another combination of words. Such as women, transmen and non binary people. Or women and people who (insert whatever inclusionary term here). Or, if we must, females.

It doesn’t have to be people with learning differences or English as a second language who don’t understand the term ‘menstruators’! What about girls? I am reasonably sure my 10 year old daughter had no idea she would have been a ‘menstruator’. Congratulations! Using that in an article or any communication about periods would just have excluded her. Or doesn’t she count? Is it her fault she hasn’t been taught that she is a menstruator?

Just as she hasn’t been taught she is a cervix haver or a vulva owner or a potential birthing body.

The comment was and still is, why is it ok to use dehumanizing and purely functional language when the word woman and ‘add other terms’ or female are very good communication tools.

I am old enough to have lived in a world where women were discouraged in talking about their periods by disgusted men. It was only very very recently it was becoming mainstream. I can tell you from experience, this has just put our conversation back in the ‘disgusting’ box.

Nothing so inclusive as making women feel ashamed discussing a very human process with detached language is there? And all those ejaculators out there, or testicle havers, sperm producers, impregnators, whatever, they get called ..... wait for it.... MEN!!! Well done!

Regarding Kathryn and faer life experience and whether fae can relate to women.

It's true that women don't all have the same experiences in childbirth and maternity leave, but the point is that the possible range of experiences are not academic, esoteric possibilities for women in the workplace in the way they might be for, for example, famous politician Matt Hancock.

What do women voters have in common with Kathryn Bristow (who identifies as a fae, and not necessarily with women) that they don't have in common with Matt Hancock? Should Matt be eligible to stand for chair of Conservative Party Women? Why not?

@Elfinghecking

I feel like I’ve answered OPs question. And tempting though it is to actually answer some of the questions being put to me I know from previous posts that it is utterly exhausting and pointless to start arguing with certain posters on MN about trans issues. So I won’t be. OP can read the posts, use Google, and make her own mind up about JKR.

Another one running away as soon as presented with questions or statement they know they cannot reasonably answer. JKR was never transphobic or anti-trans is the simple fact of the matter, as is the fact that biological sex will always exist even if you hold different beliefs about gender. It simply cannot be wished (or medicated) away.

Yep. I'm so shocked at that

Tbh the cognitive dissonance needed to remember the right pronouns must be exhausting!

I've got a page open in another tab and I'm having to refer back each time to get it right. I think I'd find it very testing if I had to grapple with two sets of neopronouns at once.

@TheBuffster

So the unanswered questions we've yet to receive answers on:

What JK actually said that was transphobic?

Can you please quote the parts of her essay that were transphobic?

Is it ok to acknowledge sex is real or is that transphobic?

If people are being transphobic to express concern about males competing in female sports?

If it's transphobic to have single sex spaces?

As transwomen offend at the same rate as men are women justified in exercising caution?

If men or transwomen don't pose a threat why do we need single sex spaces to begin with?

How can we protect Muslim women and abuse victims if they can't access single sex spaces?

Why are vulnerable women's rights less important than transwomen's rights?

Why are transmen's rights only ever explored when someone wants to do away with the word women?

Does the erosion of the word women not carry risks when applied to medical contexts?

Are women not at risk from missing out on medical procedures due to the muddying of language?

What rights do trans people not have?

How is JK trying to take these away?

How do you define women without biology without resorting to stereotypes?

Aren't stereotypes harmful?

How will safeguarding issues be addressed if deadnaming and access to shared spaces is brought in?

Why are women not allowed to meet and discuss their rights?

Why are groups accused of transphobia simply by not having it as their main aim?

And that's just off the top of my head.

So because of exhaustion we still have no answers. Just a little reminder of the key questions (I know it gets annoying but does highlight they never debate properly!)

‘ Another one running away as soon as presented with questions or statement they know they cannot reasonably answer. ’

God knows, I have tried over the years on here. Really tried. In fact one of the reasons I now frequently change my user name. Some posters on MN can be absolutely rabid when presented with views or arguments that don’t align to their own.

The “if you don’t know, I can’t tell you” is so frustrating. If she’s so self evidently “transphobic”, why is it so hard to pin down what it actually was that she said or wrote that is so objectionable?

Unless....she isn’t in any way phobic, and people are trashing her because other people have told them they should...

Honestly, have a crack at the questions. They're posted because we've never genuinely got an answer to them.

Nice try @TheBuffster, nice try.

Some posters on MN can be absolutely rabid when presented with views or arguments that don’t align to their own.

@Elfinghecking funny, I've only ever seen that from the Trans Activist side. The Gender Critical side only ever become exasperated at never having the very simplest questions answered, the response is always the same, 'oh I'm not getting into this', 'I do have answers, I just don't discuss with people who won't listen', ''the evidence is there if you look for it, I'm not going to point it out'.

The GC side often make intelligent arguments, backed up with facts and evidenced with situations that prove 'gender' as an ideology is harmful to society, especially biological women (who are already an oppressed group). TRAs cannot even explain what gender is, or what 'identifying' as a person means outside of the definition of sex/biology. So it's of little surprise that GC people keep questioning the other side, until someone - anyone - can give a tangible and indisputable answer to why gender is more than masculine/feminine personality stereotypes.

Pahahaha
Ok it's a parody account, gotcha.
You really had us there.

@sophociesthefox

The “if you don’t know, I can’t tell you” is so frustrating.

It's why gender ideology is undeniably a new age religion, it's exactly the same argument atheist have with those with religious beliefs. 'If you dont have the right mindset then you'll never see it'. If you need a mindset to see it in the first place, then perhaps your beliefs aren't actually fact....

OP if you’re still knocking around I can send you some links to coverage around JKR that you might find interesting.

This thread has been up for 3 days yet still screenshots and links to the terrible transphobic tweets JK are supposed to have written are mysteriously absent.

@Elfinghecking

OP if you’re still knocking around I can send you some links to coverage around JKR that you might find interesting.

Oh come on now, don't keep the juicy secrets propaganda to yourself, share with the group! Or would putting it on a public forum open you up to libellous accusations?

@Elfinghecking

OP if you’re still knocking around I can send you some links to coverage around JKR that you might find interesting.

Not a cult then.

As a lurker, it is very telling that those who say JKR is anti-trans can never provide a direct quote of what she said. It is always pointless/exhausting/self-evident/up to someone else to Google, etc. Surely if you are going to make such an assertion, you have some quotes saved that you can simply copy & paste?