To ask about Jeremy Corbyn and anti semitism

[TheoriginalLEM]

So having decided to vote labour I had a conversation with a Jewish work colleague who said she couldn't vote for him, hated him even. It took me a few seconds and then i realised why. I said that I had stuck my fingers in my ears and my head in the sand somewhat about this, hoping it was just the media etc.

We didn't get into it as I could see she was uncomfortable.

So can someone tell me if and why he is an anti-semite? It doesn't sit well with me to vote for someone like that but I desperately want the Tories gone and my politics is definitely to the left.

I'm honestly not being goady and I know I could google but i wouldn't know where to start to get an unbiased view

And "women" for Jews, of course.

The Halle and Pittsburgh synagogue shootings were not carried out by left-wingers. As ever, it's the far-right that pose a genuine threat to Jewish people.

@ZacharyQuacks yep, I have tracked down the David Icke sponsored radio show for you. It’s here: www.dailymotion.com/video/x2nq61c

The bit where Dr Alex Scott-Samuel, Chair of the Wavertree CLP who proposed a motion of no-confidence in Luciana Berger, starts banging on about the influence of Rothschilds starts about 19 minutes in.

@WeBuiltCisCityOnSexistRoles Great summary. I'm afraid these attitudes are now completely mainstream in the Labour Party. Most of these would be considered diagnostic tests of institutional racism in any organisation. I can only hope that a different leader and the results of the EHRC investigation will finally root out these awful attitudes so that I can vote for them again.

Fuck me. Really?!

And here we go...two recent shootings which killed 13 Jews weren't actually carried out by left wingers, so right wing people are even more dangerous to Jews.

What lovely examples you chose to try and prove a point. What the fuck goes on in someone's mind to say something like that?! I could say more but I'm too inarticulate, plus would be deleted no doubt.

@WeBuiltCisCityOnSexistRoles thank you for your post. I agree with every word you say

far right and far left seem to meet up and cross over with their idiotic ideology

@Peter, so let me get this clear - bullying and abuse of child abuse victims, civil servants, black and ethnic minorities and other MPs is a-ok? But bullying and abuse of Jewish MPs is unacceptable and defacto evidence of anti-semitism? Got it!

You treat others as you want to be treated, that’s a very basic principle. Margaret Hodge MP has at the very least, an extremely dubious record and I say that as Labour Party member and yet has been re-selected by her CLP. So Labour really isn’t the hotbed of anti-semitism that many are making out here. And I and others are dubious of claims of antisemitism precisely because we have seen allegations of this thrown at anyone who openly and legitimately criticises the actions of Israel (Backed up by numerous UN Resolutions). It is a conflation that many Zionists try to make - to silence criticism of Israel and exempt its actions from scrutiny.

The irony is of course that many pro-Zionists, including David Duke are also anti-semites.

And @PeterOhanrahahanrahan I asked for evidence about the claims being made about the Wavertree CLP chair, not for anything else.

Have you listened to it yet, Zachary?

Remember what some people call “evidence” won’t be real or will have been grossly manipulated.

What examples of evidence given on this thread about the words/ actions of Corbyn aren't real please? Lots of posters popping up to say it's all lies but not a single one willing to say what exactly the lies are. Thanks.

@ZacharyQuacks Anti-Zionism is not "criticism of Israel". Many Zionists are also socialists and criticise the actions of Israeli governments.

This "it's just about silencing criticism of Israel" excuse is one of the ways left wing antisemitism manifests itself. In any other context, an obsession with one state or demographic would instantly be seen as a red flag. Reading Labour groups and hearing Labour discussions, you'd have thought the wrongs of one state of 8 million people were the only foreign policy issue worth discussing.

@noblegiraffe - yes, his comments are stupid and play into anti-Semitic tropes. I won’t defend them. He is not, however, representative of the Wavertree CLP or the Labour Party and it’s members.

@ZacharyQuacks You are given the evidence you asked for and you instantly dismiss it. Unbelievable.

In what way is the chair of Wavertree CLP not representative of Wavertree CLP?

Still waiting for someone to explain why Luciana Berger needed police protection at her last Labour party conference, and as someone will probably be along in a minute to say it's all a right wing smear - here's a picture (from the Daily Mirror, no less!) www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/jewish-mp-luciana-berger-flanked-13298354

@PeterOhanrahahanrahan you are conflating criticism of Israel with anti-semitism. No other state on earth is exempt from criticism or scrutiny of its action, particularly not one that holds itself out as a modern western democracy but yet is happy to allow extra-judicial killings of its Palestinian citizens, denial of full citizenship for them and the use of white phosphorus against them. I also hear plenty of criticism against Saudi Arabia, Myanmar and other states, at Labour Party meetings, so you are wrong on that one.

It is best to vote Conservative and avoid this kind of thing.

OP I hope you have a clearer idea now of this issue. This thread is a good example, on a small scale, of what is going on within the labour party. Posters report factual events or statements by Corbyn, and his supporters come along to say it's all lies/ smears but despite being repeatedly asked are unable to specify what exactly has been said that is false.

Then anybody who dares to speak out about anti-Semitism against them has their character pulled apart- as unlike other forms of harassment and discrimination you are not allowed to complain about anti-Semitism if you are not perfect.

But I'd like to thank yet another MN thread for reminding me what an absolute shit show Corbyn's labour has become and why they've lost my vote. They are one scary cult.

It is best to vote Conservative and avoid this kind of thing.
Yes because they have such a good track record of tackling racism, misogyny and general crap behaviour.

@Xenia As I see it, Labour antisemitism is one aspect of the populist virus that has destroyed both the Conservative and the Labour party since 2016. Both parties have embraced a narrow populism that casts "the establishment" as the enemy of the people. I won't vote for either. I will vote and encourage others to vote against populist candidates where possible. I may not be able to keep either Johnson or Corbyn out of number 10, but it is the best hope of electing anti-populist MPs that can at least limit the damage they can do, until we have grown-ups running our main political parties again.

He is not, however, representative of the Wavertree CLP or the Labour Party and it’s members

They elected him

Zachary When you asked for proof, you said you knew several residents of the constituency. Will you be passing it to them?

@JollyRocker

Are you not going to admit your error regarding the Jewish Chronicle?

I don't feel valid criticism of a certain country is anti-Semitic. This certain country has been lobbying within our political system and interfering in our policies.

There are actually Jewish people talking about this issue and speaking against a political movement isn't disliking any religion. Why would it be?

If you take the idea that the UK is a 'Christian' country, criticising our policies and questioning our history isn't any sort of discrimination. It may be offensive to our politicians and that's ok. A 'yes press' isn't helpful to any functioning 'democracy'.

www.nme.com/news/music/new-letter-supporting-jeremy-corbyn-2568734

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/20/jeremy-corbyn-labour-party-crucial-ally-in-fight-against-antisemitism

Maria Carroll, a current labour candidate, has been exposed as running a FB group advising members on how to frustrate and beat investigations into anti-Semitism. These include members who are Holocaust deniers and others spreading appalling racist stuff. This isn't a smear, there is plenty of evidence including screenshots. This is now rife throughout the labour party and that isn't going to change whilst the Corbyn obsessives refuse to acknowledge the issue.