To ask about Jeremy Corbyn and anti semitism

[TheoriginalLEM]

So having decided to vote labour I had a conversation with a Jewish work colleague who said she couldn't vote for him, hated him even. It took me a few seconds and then i realised why. I said that I had stuck my fingers in my ears and my head in the sand somewhat about this, hoping it was just the media etc.

We didn't get into it as I could see she was uncomfortable.

So can someone tell me if and why he is an anti-semite? It doesn't sit well with me to vote for someone like that but I desperately want the Tories gone and my politics is definitely to the left.

I'm honestly not being goady and I know I could google but i wouldn't know where to start to get an unbiased view

Noble giraffe, Stop having a conversation with yourself.

I dont understand why people do that. Its so frustrating.

That said chomsky is supportive of corbyn. The videos and interviews are easily found.

Watched a French film(English subtitles) today on Netflix.
It’s called Ils Sont Partout or They Are Everywhere.
It’s about anti semitism and in different scenes it it’s both informative and very funny. Imo all schools should show it as part of educating children against prejudice.

Pretty sure @noblegiraffe is having a conversation with anyone reading this thread. And just because Chomsky’s Jewish does not give him a seal of approval, he’s said a lot of silly things. It’s not like we have an annual meeting where we vote “if another Jew said it, then it’s okay with me”.

Yes Johnson is worse, that does not mean JC has done a good job, and it does not mean he has not (at the minimum) tolerated anti-semitism in the Labour Party.

That said chomsky is supportive of corbyn

“Admirable and decent human being” which he actually wrote is a bit different to “the most passionate antiracist campaigner of the last 40 years” which is what was being widely spread as a quote. A quote that certain people lapped up because when faced with anything regarding Corbyn, they apparently completely disengage their critical faculties.

The Rachael Swindon Labour propaganda account that got plenty of likes and retweets with that quote incidentally had to delete and apologise for a Rothschilds conspiracy tweet because whoops they didn’t realise that was an antisemitic trope.

In any case, we're not talking about Israelis here, whether Jewish or not. We're talking about antisemitism towards British citizens, living in Britain. Trying to pin it on events in Israel is antisemitic in and of itself.

You're not helping your arguments by labelling everyone who disagrees with you, Jews included, as 'antisemitic'. You are only strengthening the suspicion that this accusation is being hurled around indiscriminately to try to damage Corbyn and shut down debate.

Sorry Arsedarkly, I didn't see you over the enormous straw man you're sitting behind.

Holding jews collectively responsible for actions of Israel is antisemitism as per defintion.

And once again @ArseDarkly, do you accuse other groups of lying about prejudice they are subject to? Or is it just Jews who can’t be trusted/need you to explain anti-semitism to them.

If you genuinely cared about the issue of antisemitism and not just bashing Corbyn/Labour you would want to discuss it properly. You don't want to, so you just keep deflecting, mocking, and accusing pp of racism to shut them down..

All you have demonstrated here is your own intolerance.

So you get to set the rules about how to discuss antisemitism “properly”? 😳

So one must discuss ISIS before addressing islamophobia against British muslims on the right?

And if islamophobia is mentioned, particularly in the context of Britain, it must be accompanied by a 'debate' about ISIS? You know, to properly understand it.

Of course not. It would be ridiculous. As is the desperate need to go back to the comfortable and familiar talking points about Israel rather than adddessing the some not so comfortable problem of anti-semitism.

"So you get to set the rules about how to discuss antisemitism “properly”? 😳

Of course. Because, apparently, no one else 'genuinely' cares unless it is accompanied by self flagellation about Israel. It's really all a biig lie and a smear campaign against Corbyn, poor lamb.

The labour party has today launched its arts policy with Ken Loach who appears to be contradicting Corbyn's own admission that there is anti-Semitism in the party. Apparently it's all lies. Maybe if Corbyn wants to be seen to be taking a stand against anti-Semitism in the party he ought to not be sharing a stage with someone who has basically accused Jewish MPs of lying in addition to saying that the Holocaust is up for debate.

Video footage of Loach's own words lest I be accused of believing media smears.

mobile.twitter.com/JewishLabour/status/1198614787900485632

Oh my God.

He justifies 'debate' about the holocaust by saying that Israel must also be 'debated'. WTAF? Is this really a thing now? Guess momentum or others must have sent out some message to say that if you're ever challenged on anti-semitism in the labour party then deflect it by saying that we must debate Israel.

And you have labour supporters on that thread literally denying what he is saying, on video. I cannot even begin to imagine what the environment is like for Jewish MPs/ councillors/ members trying to raise concerns and be taken seriously.

Ken Loach's views are horrific. This is someone I grew up admiring: Cathy Come Home was part of my political and social education. That someone of his stature says these things gives legitimacy and oxygen to others in the Labour Party and on the left.

This is how antisemitism has become mainstream in the Labour Party. When members like me raise concerns about antisemitism we are marginalised and abused, all manner of justifications are found and we are inundated with quotes, links, and ready made copy and paste texts, because members have access to a library on social media to draw from and copy.

(Btw Ken Loach was a candidate for the grossly antisemitic Respect party as well as campaigning against Labour as "Left Unity" so I don't know why Labour should be taking lessons in loyalty from him now).

Ken Loach on anti-Semitism 10 years ago-

"If there has been a rise I am not surprised. In fact, it is perfectly understandable because Israel feeds feelings of anti-Semitism"

"nothing has been a greater instigator of antisemitism than the self-proclaimed Jewish state itself"

His awful views are long-standing and well known. That Corbyn and labour choose to work with him in the current circumstances tells me all I need to know about how seriously they are taking concerns about anti-Semitism within the party.

Loach had the god damned cheek to say that Labour MPs who joined the "Enough is Enough" demonstration against antisemitism in Parliament Square in March 2018 should be kicked out of the party. After his decades of standing candidates against the Labour Party.

This is what Labour has become: a hollowed out, populist caricature of what it was set up to be - a movement for the representation of ALL working people IN parliament.

The whole thing is sickening.

Wow, this is so sad. I'd loved his films and was vaguely aware of his tendencies but hasn't realised quite how awful

I feel the same Annie.

If Corbyn isn't anti semitic he's really bloody incompetent and no better than any one else. It isn't hard to speak out about it , he seems to have no problems with speaking out otherwise so what is is his problem

HeresMe The alternatives are either he agrees with these views out of dogmatic principle, or he doesn't think they are important enough to be worth dealing with.

I also think, based on some acquaintances who know him personally (I don't) that he is a weak manager who doesn't want to have the difficult conversations with colleagues when they are clearly needed. Look at the examples on "The List" of times he has stood with Jewish people - they are all condemning racism in general. That isn't enough from the leader. He needs to say "This person [name] has caused great offence and his/her views are unacceptable in the Labour Party". And he won't.

That's it he won't question his disciples, Naz Shah who is disgusting , Diane Abbott who is useless and John McDonell who is dangerous.

Look at his friends in Venezuela socaliam not going so well, that's become the guy at top is always corrupt.