To ask about Jeremy Corbyn and anti semitism

[TheoriginalLEM]

So having decided to vote labour I had a conversation with a Jewish work colleague who said she couldn't vote for him, hated him even. It took me a few seconds and then i realised why. I said that I had stuck my fingers in my ears and my head in the sand somewhat about this, hoping it was just the media etc.

We didn't get into it as I could see she was uncomfortable.

So can someone tell me if and why he is an anti-semite? It doesn't sit well with me to vote for someone like that but I desperately want the Tories gone and my politics is definitely to the left.

I'm honestly not being goady and I know I could google but i wouldn't know where to start to get an unbiased view

ritascornershop you are spot on with your analysis of how this thread reflects the increasingly anti-Semitic society we are living in. Having seen the way some people twist and manipulate other people’s experiences of discrimination and prejudice on here today I am even more terrified than ever for my security as a British Jew.

We left our home in another city on mainland Europe amidst a wave of anti-demotismi thinking that Britain would be safer. I feel physically sick reading some of the nastiness on here today. Irrespective of whether Corbyn & his band of merry men and women are anti-Semitic or not, there are some absolutely vile views on here.

*anti-semitism (damn auto-correct!)

Is that why theyve increased poverty and homelessness masively whilst labour managed to decrease it Xenia? why has the UN expressed concerns about how the tories treat 'the less better off'?

Care to comment?

'Dominic Cummings said Tory MPs do not care about poor people or NHS'

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/30/dominic-cummings-tories-do-not-care-about-poor-people-or-the-nhs

More lies spotted on here.

'Israel announced Tuesday morning that it would cut supplies of fuel to the Gaza Strip after a rash of cross-border arson attacks. '

www.timesofisrael.com/israel-shuts-off-gas-supplies-to-gaza-after-spate-of-arson-attacks/

I don't know enough about Israel and Palestine to judge the situation.

But I have become increasingly aware of anti semitism in the labour party and the left. I think Corbyn is anti semitic, but I also think he does not realise it and thinks he is not.

I come from a very poor background and am aware that shylock is an anti semitic slur. I believe that some people are ignorant of what anti semitism is. But anyone decent when it is pointed out to them would take this on board.

Patroclus what possible connection is there between what comes out of Dominic Cummings’ mouth and the question of whether Jeremy Corbyn is antisemitic or not? It’s not a competition to see who does or doesn’t say or do the most offensive things.

I really can’t understand why every debate connected with politics on MN ends up in this perpetual but “what about the other parties”? Jeremy Corbyn doesn’t become any less, or more, anything just because other parties are not up to scratch. And you could argue that if the best his supporters can offer as an argument is that he’s “better than the Tories” they are clearly not so convinced after all.

@mycatthinksshesatiger Irrespective of whether Corbyn & his band of merry men and women are anti-Semitic or not, there are some absolutely vile views on here.

This is my problem with this thread, and also why I wish some of the worse posts had been left to stand. At least three different user names were posting some quite vile stuff. I have very little interest in which section of society or political party holds these views, only concern that they exist at all.

As a side point I surveyed 23 people who came in to my office today from the delivery guy to the director (of various financial backgrounds, education levels, countries of origin etc.) as to what they thought of when they heard the word Shylock. Every single person connected Shylock with Jew. 15 of those specifically with some kind of Shakespeare/Merchant of Venice/Pound of Flesh link.

I was teaching about the Holocaust today.

It is always a traumatising topic. But in the face of Holocaust denial, it is very important to keep teaching facts of history.

To take just one example. In one weekend, in Ukraine in September 1941, over 30,000 Jews were murdered. Most of them were machine-gunned.

The world did nothing, so the Final Solution was planned a few months later.

33,000 Jews murdered in one weekend in September 1941.

Just a footnote of history today.

the Tory party has better policies and is able to look after the needs of the less well off better than Labour

Well it's nice that someone decided to inject some humour into the thread.

Missy I agree. Conservatives considering the needs of the 'less well off' is hilarious. Bankers, yep. Billionairres, yep. Poor/ vulnerable not so much. I really wish people would stop voting for them.

My son's headmaster used to ensure no boy left the school without seeing Schindler's List at school (these boys were 12 ). Very good.

A bit off topic but I can really recommend the Netflix documentary The Devil Next Dior about the long running extradition and court case of Nazi War Criminal 'Ivan the Terrible' - fascinating case, but also harrowing as holocaust survivors gave eye witness testimonies in court.

Right, back to the thread.....

The Devil Next Door (not Dior!)

Thread long moved on but thank you to @Halleli for answering my question on practical evidence for antisemitism increasing in Britain. I'll go look into it. I'm not sure if the upswing in hate crimes is any greater than that experienced by any other group, such as for instance women, nor am I sure that it shows Corbyn and Labour is causing it, but it is alarming in general how much hate there seems to be spilling out on to anyone who can be identified into such groups. You're not the only ones who would leave the country given the option.

Latest example of Corbyn standing there while his mate calls Jews immoral.
Tell me who your friends are...

www.theredroar.com/2019/11/exclusive-corbyn-embraced-speaker-who-claimed-zionism-had-made-jews-immoral/

from the Red Roar website again.

www.reddit.com/r/LabourUK/comments/9d52zd/is_the_red_roar_a_reliable_source_or_a_trolling/

Always always always, ask where information comes from and just who is providing it, for what reason. I've rarely seen such rubbish flying around. This is a dirtier campaign even than the Brexit referendum, and that was chock full of lies. The chief provider of which of course is currently pretending to lead the country.

@ImGoingToBangYourHeadsTogether Do you think we are idiots who don't check sources?

In this matter, think you are winding yourselves up. Assuming you are, of course, not some sort of paid social media reputation massager or public relations person.

The Red Roar has been quoted a number of times in this and similar threads, almost to the absence of other sources. It is perfectly appropriate to question such things on the open internet. Why, do you have an interest in preventing such questions? Use other sources then, known sources, reputable sources, which as an absolute minimum starting point - declare their authors.

I haven't seen reliable sources that everything quoted is true. But I have seen enough to think yes Corbyn is anti semitic. And of course the Tories use this fact to sling mud. And of course most don't care about anti semitism. But the mud sticks, because it is true about Corbyn and the Labour Party.
Just look at the car crash this thread was with lots of people defending Corbyn saying anti semitic things?

www.patheos.com/blogs/writingfromtheedge/2019/11/as-a-british-jew-im-not-fearful-of-a-corbyn-government-but-im-horrified-at-how-antisemitism-is-being-used-against-him/

Very few bothered to check the £350 million claim for the NHS until it was already out there. The media moghuls who run with friends in high level politics know damn well that once lies are out there, there is no way of recalling them, and few ways of checking them that stand up to scrutiny. Similar dirty strategies have been used in business for years (mentioning no names Microsoft).

We've just had the absolutely amazing entertainment of the Tories rebranding one of their own Twitter accounts as a 'fact checking' source.

Someone is absolutely desperately throwing not mud, but shit, around. And it is sticking. Doesn't make it true.

What are you saying is not true then about Corbyn? Name the lies if they exist.

I just don't accept that there is much evidence that Corbyn is anti-semitic. A lot of the claims presented to prove that he is just look like they are desperately trying to dig up any mud they can find. It is well-known that he is sympathetic to Palestinians and is trying to find a path towards peaceful negotiation in that region of the world. It's not an easy task. There is an analogy with Northern Ireland I believe. There were many complaints at the beginning of the peace process about dealing with terrorists then. I am very glad that the people pursuing the peace process continued with it.

So do you think all the examples presented are lies, or simply not evidence of anti semitism?