To ask about Jeremy Corbyn and anti semitism

[TheoriginalLEM]

So having decided to vote labour I had a conversation with a Jewish work colleague who said she couldn't vote for him, hated him even. It took me a few seconds and then i realised why. I said that I had stuck my fingers in my ears and my head in the sand somewhat about this, hoping it was just the media etc.

We didn't get into it as I could see she was uncomfortable.

So can someone tell me if and why he is an anti-semite? It doesn't sit well with me to vote for someone like that but I desperately want the Tories gone and my politics is definitely to the left.

I'm honestly not being goady and I know I could google but i wouldn't know where to start to get an unbiased view

Simply not evidence.

Show me evidence that he has denied the Holocaust. Show me something he has written saying that the Jews as an international, global group - I think it's a bit more complex than a race isn't it - are heading some sort of conspiracy. Show me evidence that he wants, god forbid, some sort of 'solution'. I can barely even type that but Jews would know what is meant better than me. That he prevents Jews from standing for office because they are Jewish, or in some way refuses to help people who happen to be Jewish in his constituency. Show me proof that would stand up in court, not that he once spoke to someone who spoke to someone who, as actual enemies in an ongoing war, might have said something unpleasant about their enemies, not while he is engaged in trying to bring about negotiations there. Of course he has to speak to people. If he were to become prime minister, would you habitually refuse communications with other states?

Ah okay, you don't recognise actual anti semitism unless it is neon lights. His defence of the anti semitic mural is a clear example.

Jeremy Corbyn did not look good last night when he was debating with Boris Johnson ... I think he might be ill after seeing his glasses because one of the lenses was frosted which suggested he might be recovering from a stroke.

This antisemitism debate is getting old I’m afraid

I think this has shocked me more than anything. Speechless.

@ImGoingToBangYourHeadsTogether read the article I posted about the weaponisation of antisemitism including a statistical analysis. However no one else on this thread will read or comment on it as it doesn't fit their narrative.

My Great Grandmother was a Polish Jew and I will not be voting for Labour.

My maternal grandparents were Jewish and I certainly will be voting for Labour.

I don't know how I will vote. DP and I have talked about this. I have ALWAYS voted Labour. But the anti semitism horrifies me.

I have a work colleague who has told me him and his wife (both Jewish) are preparing to leave the country Jeremy wins the election.

He is not an unreasonable or high maintenance man. I think it's clear there's at least something wrong here? For someone to feel like that within their own country?

To clarify I'm not a tory!

Jeremy will never be PM but there could be a hung parliament.

He keeps saying how rich Boris is but he is also a very wealthy man who likes to pretend he is "one of the people"

Simply not evidence.

You don't think using the blood libel is anti-Semitic, or calling a Jewish person Shylock. I'm not sure why anybody should have any respect for your views on what constitutes anti-Semitism tbh.

"Show me proof that would stand up in court, not that he once spoke to someone who spoke to someone who, as actual enemies in an ongoing war, might have said something unpleasant about their enemies,"

Well, he hugged and called his friends and shared a platform and promoted such people. Who called JEWS their enemies.

Now, as I recall, British Jews are not actual enemies of anyone in any ongoing war. Unless, of course, you're antisemetic. QED.

Show me proof that would stand up in court

People are completely misunderstanding how institutional racism works, 20 years after the Stephen Lawrence enquiry.

Institutional racism is not about "proving" whether this or that individual is or is not a racist. It's about organisational norms, structures, culture and patterns of behaviour. It's about outcomes, not intentions.

Labour's antisemitism problem (put very simply) is focused around four issues:

1. The resurgence in the Labour Party of classic left wing antisemitism "the socialism of fools", of which the Mear One mural is a good example.

1. The obsessive preoccupation with the wrongs of Israel, which draw on classic tropes of malevolent Jewish power and influence (an "Israel lobby" which controls things) which ignore the places in the region where mass killing is really going on.

1. The mobilisation of a tiny group of long-standing Jewish anti-Israel activists to deny Labour's antisemitism and provide a Jewish cover for it.

1. The bullying, gaslighting, denial and harassment of anyone within the Labour party who raises concerns about antisemitism.

None of this requires "proof" that Corbyn is or isn't antisemitic, although he may well be. The outcomes are that Jewish MPs have been bullied out of the party, as have Jewish activists including Momentum members who belived in Corbyn's social justice project, and that 87% of a community (70% of whom voted Labour only a few years ago) believe that the leader of the party is antisemitic.

And the risible idea that corbyn promotes peace by hanging out with absoutist Islamic terrorist groups!
I mean, if hes a peacemaker then surely that means meeting with both sides? Has he ever met with Israeli extremists? Or even non extremists at that? You know, to make peace? I mean, ever?? Doesnt making peace involve hearing out both sides?

Corbyn attended a celebration of the anniversary of the Iranian revolution and made a speech praising Iran as a 'tolerant and accepting' country. The one that executes gay people and jails women for not wearing the headscarf. He's an absolute hypocrite.

Corbyn may be many things but he is not a peacemaker. He just picks sides. This doesn't stop his faithful describing in the most deluded manner his supposed role in the Irish peace process, casting him in the role that was actually played by Mo Mowlam.

He had explained his appearances on Press TV (Iranian) saying he went on there to talk about human rights. In fact he talked about "the hand of Israel".

For anyone that missed curlykaren's post earlier in the thread - excellent well-balanced article by a British Jew about the 'weaponisation' of antisemitism for political gain here.

Very brave of this writer to make his voice heard against the din of smear campaign against Corbyn.

Very brave of this writer to make his voice heard against the din of smear campaign against Corbyn.

Also very brave of you to try so desperately to cover it up for him - so brave!

What does the writer need me to cover up? He's a British Jew writing from his own experience and POV. Or are you trying to suggest he is not?

Corbyn invited an individual called Raed Salah to the House of Commons and was recorded on camera calling him an "honoured citizen". Salah has been jailed 3 times. Once for raising money for Hamas, once for assaulting a police officer in London and once for the "blood libel", i.e. suggesting that Jews killed Christian children in medieval Europe. He was jailed for the first two before Corbyn called him "honoured". What do you think he meant by that?

Robert AH Cohen is a long standing anti-Israel activist and anti-Zionist who also blogs at Mondoweiss (described as a hate site by the Washington Post). The blog post you linked to is pretty much a copy and paste of the denial script reblogged countless times on Labour forums. To unpick just one point, the numbers quoted by Jenny Formby are the number of upheld disciplinary cases over a specific 10 month period in 2018, so to suggest that this represents the extent of the problem is laughable.

Believe whoever you want, but don't expect me to believe some blogger with a fixation, over the present of the Board of Deputies.

Robert AH Cohen is a long standing anti-Israel activist and anti-Zionist And there's the nub of it. Never mind that he's a British Jew giving his thoughtful opinion. If he isn't claiming that Corbyn is a raving antisemite you don't want to hear it. Shame on you.

Sorry, last post was addressed to Arsedarkly. And "president of the Board of Deputies " not "present".

If there's no problem with anti-Semitism in Labour, why are the Equality and Human Rights Commission investigating it?

I have heard it, I've read the blog post Arsedarkly linked to and I've addressed points in it. If that is the perspective you prefer, fine. Don't expect me to believe it over the overwhelming majority of British Jews, including the BOD, the Jewish Chronicle, and the experience of activists, Jewish and non Jewish, and including myself, who have found the Labour Party under Corbyn uninhabitable due to the behaviour of the Corbyn supporters.