To be uneasy about nursery's discipline methods

[Squashpocket]

When I went to pick ds up from nursery he was crying at the door when I arrived, very distressed and saying that he wanted me, that he wanted to go home (even though he hadn't seen me yet at this point). His key worker explained that he'd been told off for snatching a toy and was put in time out, and "obviously they have to ignore him now" (her words).

This has made me feel quite uncomfortable. Is this normal? Ds is 2 and 3 months. I would absolutely want them to correct his bad behaviour, but I was thinking more along the lines of explaining why the behaviour was bad, getting him to apologise to the other child and then redirecting him to play elsewhere, rather than ignoring a distressed 2 year old. I'm going to ask the nursery for their discipline policy next time we're in, so at least we'll be on the same page from now on, but I'm just wondering AIBU to be upset about this or maybe I am being too sensitive?

How long has he been at the nursery?

If he's been there a year and he knows them all it's not a bad discipline method imho but if he's new it's very harsh

How long was he in time out for?

I wouldn’t choose a nursery that uses time out. If it is part of their behaviour policy then I guess you have to decide how important it is to you that they don’t use time out.

Sounds like he was in time out and had a tantrum to me. Perfectly normal to ignore a tan

My DDs old nursery used time outs. I think it's pretty standard. But ignoring a distressed child isn't really on. There's a way of doing it surely? My eldest had one time out in 3 years and she never needed another one, so it was an effective deterrent though.

The thing is you will get all sorts of answers here. It all depends in what methods you like.

I don't do time out or naughty step, therefore I would not be happy with that.

But some people might.

It totally depends on how you want to raise him OP.

He's been at the nursery since he was a baby, so he knows the staff well.

I don't use time out at home, I don't think my ds is really old enough to 'get it' but appreciate that other children his age may be ahead of him in this respect. It just looked a bit harsh in practice to me, but I obviously also don't want his bad behaviour to go uncorrected. I'm not going to move him out of the nursery over this or anything drastic, but I wondered if it warranted a conversation with the room leader. I don't want to be 'that' parent though if this is normal.

He's too young to understand time out. It's not really effective until at least 3 maybe older when he can fully understand consequence etc.
As you say it's much better to deal with the behaviour immediately and redirect play after apologies.

In my opinion nursery settings are often too quick to jump to using punishment strategies like time out to manage unwanted behaviours. I'm a behaviour therapist and under our code of ethics we only use punishment when all other forms of managing the behaviour have been exhausted (ie positive reinforcement and teaching alternative ways to get your needs met). Time out (and other punishment strategies) can be really effective and quick to eliminate behaviours, so I can see why they're used, but IMHO it's lazy to use this as the go to. I also don't see how or why ignoring the child is necessary in this context. Giving them time out from play in response to not playing nicely is one thing, but ignoring them completely makes no sense. My childminder would never use time out, and she's excellent at managing my son's behaviours, so it's not necessarily standard or needed in childcare settings. I'd question their rationale for using time out and ask them what proactive strategies they're employing to support the children to share etc.

I work in a nursery and would be absolutely disgusted. Not okay at all.

What’s their behaviour management policy like?

Thebubgrower you've articulated exactly what I was feeling.

I feel like he is too young, its too extreme a punishment for the 'crime' and frankly a bit lazy on the part of the nursery staff. I know that ds will have been feeling terrible after this. He already cries when I tell him it's a nursery day and at drop off most times, now I can maybe see why

I wouldn't be happy with this. He's far too young to understand the method for a start.

DS nursery say 'No' or 'that's not kind' and remove the child from the situation or to calm down but they are sat with and reassured if they are upset.

No child is ever ignored if they are crying, no matter the reason.

Sorry OP, you are being a bit precious. 2 is old enough to know the word no means something, but equally if they did your way they'd be there for ages.

Nope I don’t agree with time out unless the child actually needs a break (sensory overload) or has been violent (kicking or biting) and I think ignoring upset children is horrible, even tantrums. Tantrums are a young child’s way of telling you that they feel overwhelmed about something, you wouldn’t ignore or freeze out an upset grown up so it’s unacceptable to treat a child that way.

I would not be happy with that. In my opinion, he’s too young to fully understand time-our.

I used time out at that age. Warning it will happen if behaviour doesnt stop, 2 mins, then explain why (again), sorry and move on.
They understand it after first time very young. Usually warning works so they aren't actually in time out that often.

Not much experience if it's normal at nursery though.

It’s hard to say really.

I don’t like ‘time out’ but I’ve used it a few times when it was that or batter them! You know, when you’re DONE ‘explaining nicely’ ‘telling off’ ‘scowling’ and you just want it ALL to stop.

Not in a nursery setting.

Not when he’s 2.3.

Not over snatching a toy.

Frankly, it would concern me far more that they thought this was the best way to handle snatching etc than the fact he was upset IYSWIM

No way I would not be ok with this.

He is 2 years old, 'time out' would never have worked for mine at that age they are too young.
No wonder he was distressed.

I would be very unhappy with this. I think he is still v young to be somewhere without you and as such would want a child that age to be comforted in my absence.

I don't use time out or exclusion at home, so wouldn't want someone caring for my child to do it wait her. At that age, distraction, praise and role modelling is a much better approach and I'd be having very serious words with the room leader or similar.

I personally would go with my gut too. It felt wrong, you felt your child was genuinely digressed and being ignored in his distress. That's serious in my book.

Yanbu, 2 is too young for timeout, and definitely too young to be ignored. If all he did was snatch a toy,v I'd have thought a firm no, we don't do that, and the toy gently but firmly removed would do the trick, quickly followed by distraction technique.

I would think it's too early for a timeout for a 2.3 years. It's not ok with me to ignore such a crying kid even he is having a timeout. I would definitely have a chat or a further query with the nursery staff or even the manager about this.

I strongly disagree with minicooper "if they did your way they'd be there for ages". Just no. If you're effectively teaching appropriate play and supporting a child how to manage and develop their social skills then you will be enabling them to become much more independent and to have ongoing successful play experiences. Time out is a quick fix but isn't really teaching anything as such. Like i said, it's lazy. OP you're suggestion in your original post for how they should have dealt with it is much more appropriate! I don't think you're being precious at all, it comes down to what's ethical as well as what is actually decent teaching practise. Far too many people watch super nanny and think time out is the norm!

I think you need to find a setting that shares your views on discipline. I’m not a fan of time out but nor would I be getting involved in a stand off with a toddler and trying to force an apology. I would have had them sit with me for a while and had as much of a discussion as possible, depending on their level of understanding, about what had happened and what to do next time. Although I can see why understaffed nurseries that have feeds to do, nappies to change and paperwork may go for the easy option of leaving kids in time out to discourage unwanted behaviour. You might find that a childminder suits you better.

Time out or naughty step should be brief, not being ignored. They should speak to him. Don't let it go

I have been a nursery manager and would have been cross if my staff did this! Regardless of snatching a toy I would expect staff to explain his actions or even just 'share'. They should be distracting him from his tantrum/upset. Such as come over here and let's play with the bricks etc