To be uneasy about nursery's discipline methods

[Squashpocket]

When I went to pick ds up from nursery he was crying at the door when I arrived, very distressed and saying that he wanted me, that he wanted to go home (even though he hadn't seen me yet at this point). His key worker explained that he'd been told off for snatching a toy and was put in time out, and "obviously they have to ignore him now" (her words).

This has made me feel quite uncomfortable. Is this normal? Ds is 2 and 3 months. I would absolutely want them to correct his bad behaviour, but I was thinking more along the lines of explaining why the behaviour was bad, getting him to apologise to the other child and then redirecting him to play elsewhere, rather than ignoring a distressed 2 year old. I'm going to ask the nursery for their discipline policy next time we're in, so at least we'll be on the same page from now on, but I'm just wondering AIBU to be upset about this or maybe I am being too sensitive?

[NewFreshStarts]

At a nursery I've worked at we would put children in time outs as soon as they could begin to learn right from wrong. A two year old would be given three warnings for a certain behaviour and then two minutes of time out. So in this case if he'd snatched toys three times then yes he gets a time out as he can understand it's wrong, however if he'd snatched two toys then kicked someone it would be two snatching warnings and one violence warning if that makes sense? So I think if he'd only snatched one toy then yes the staff member was being very cruel. The way she'd worded it could have been a lot better as well as she possibly meant "he's in time out but he keeps tantrumming, we've tried calming him down but decided to let him cry out as we knew you were due soon". I know I'd probably mess up saying that and it come out similar to what she said after a long day looking after two year olds 😬
Definitely review the behaviour policy, maybe ask if there's more to the story if you think there could be, but ultimately he isn't happy at this nursery so you either need to wait it out until he's in preschool (a long time though I believe) or try and move him so he's still getting those benefits you want but he's also happy.

[maddiemookins16mum]

Time out for a small toddler is just confusing. I don’t think they understand that kind of thing for another 6/8 months when they kinda change from toddlers to getting on for three year olds....if that makes sense.

[NanooCov]

Our nursery use time out but not until at least 3 years old and the child is not ignored. A staff member sits with them. They don't engage in play but can talk about why they're in time out.

[AuntMarch]

A child minder would probably be the most practical long term as they will usually do school runs. We used to have a couple who collected from pre-school so children were still accessing their funded hours and socialised with children their own age, but then had the "home style" setting with their siblings afterwards - best of both worlds?

[Squashpocket]

Thank you all. Think dh and I will go in for a chat next week and have a think about other childcare options in the meantime. Your replies have been a massive help

[ILoveAutum]

Personally, I’d get a nanny if I needed childcare, but if that was completely out of my budget I’d use a childminder. I like the home from home aspect and the kids being together.

[Squashpocket]

Oops posted twice.

No, I absolutely do not think that he should be allowed to run feral. I've explained how I personally would deal with snatching in my OP, but I appreciate that I'm not a childcare professional and nursery is a different setting to home.

In the case of hitting and biting I would be supportive of some form of time out, however I still wouldn't expect a two year old to be left to cry on their own.

I agree that nursery workers aren't paid enough for what they do but that's a whole other thread.

[user1490465531]

It would help if parents worked with nurseries in sharing what works for them in regard to discipline.
Some parents are good at it some have no boundaries at all and you can notice that in the child's behaviour the way they listen to adults etc.

[AnnaBegins]

We had the exact same issue with DS's nursery. We had a brief email exchange and a quick meeting with the nursery manager, explained we didn't consider time out an acceptable discipline method at such a young age (and provided scientific reasons for why) and suggested alternatives. They were perfectly happy with that and didn't use time out again until he went up to preschool.
To be fair, DS is generally perfectly behaved at nursery (not at home!) But I was really impressed with their response. I hope your nursery is similarly accommodating.

[Dowdydoes]

I wouldn’t leave my child somewhere that did this. It’s unethical, counter productive and shows behaviour from staff that would leave me questioning their understanding of child development not mention their empathy.

[TheBubGrower]

user yes nursery workers do get poor pay and have difficult jobs, and are likely to be just following the procedures that are set from above. However I don't think that questioning whether a form of punishment is appropriate for a 2 year old is giving them loads of stuff to "put up with"!

The OP wasn't referring to those kinds of aggressive behaviours, just snatching toys. It's not necessarily the answer to jump to punishment strategies for aggression though either. Firstly you should look at why the child is doing that, it can be for very different reasons. You don't just teach a child "better" ways to behave by punishing them. You do that by equipping them with the skills they need to navigate their social world and by reinforcing positive behaviours. Yes you need consistent boundaries and consequences but a quick fix like time out isn't necessarily going to solve the underlying causes of the behaviour long term

[Squashpocket]

He already only goes 2 days a week (minimum permitted by the nursery) as I'm on mat leave with dc2. We made the decision to keep him in to keep his place open for pre-school when I return to work and for the social interaction.

He became more unsettled when we dropped his days down, which I thought was the main reason, but now I'm not sure.

I'm starting to wonder if the best option is to pull him out and start both dc at a new place when I go back to work. Or maybe try a childminder instead so they can be together, I don't know.

[Squashpocket]

He only goes 2 days a week (minimum permitted by the nursery) as I'm on mat leave with dc2. We made the decision to keep him in to keep his place open for pre-school when I return to work and for the social interaction. He's a very sociable little boy and I am only able to provide one play date a week and a toddler group (so different faces each week). I was worried this wouldn't be enough.

He became more unsettled when we dropped his days down, which I thought was the main reason, but now I'm not sure.

[user1490465531]

If a child bites or repeatedly hits/pushes another child what do you believe the best method of discipline is?

[DevonshireCreamTea]

He should understand time out by that age. If he can understand you explaining to him why his behaviour is wrong then he can understand time out. Should nursery just let him run around feral with no discipline?

[user1490465531]

Honestly for being paid peanuts nursery staff have a lot to put up with.

[garethsouthgatesmrs]

I agree with others that he is too young for time out also not appropriate for snatching where simply giving the toy back and getting the child to say sorry is surely enough.

I wouldn't be happy to send my child somewhere when he cried every morning beyond the first few weeks. You say you can pull him out, why not look for another nursery and enrol him for a couple of mornings or day or two there

[WhyAmISoCold]

2 year throws a tantrum, what a shock, oh hang on, nope, that's what they do.

I wouldn't expect a nursery to be doing time out as discipline and certainly not for a 2 year old. Far too young. We never used time out as I didn't think it was effective at all. I wouldn't be happy OP.

I wasn't happy when DD was at nursry, but like you it didn't seem anything concrete. I didn't pull her out as I thought it would be good for her as she was very clingy with me. In hindsight I should have just pulled her out. They were crap tbh and I wish I'd trusted my instincts.

[Dash38]

If you have the option of him being at home for the next year I would definitely do this. He doesn't need nursery to socialise, he will develop perfectly well with you. Nobody loves your baby as much as you.

[Squashpocket]

nannyogg He has been known to throw a tantrum! I would still think time out is massively unproductive in that scenario though.

[sadsadsady]

The Child Care Facility must use only constructive methods of guidance. This may include, but is not limited to, interventions such as conflict resolution, encouraging the use of language skills, redirecting, providing choices, using praise or positive reinforcement, recognizing a child’s strengths, and allowing for individual differences.

Is actually the law where we are. I'd be very unhappy at your situation.

[sadsadsady]

Wow. Childcare centres aren't allowed to use that kind of discipline where I live. They'd get a warning and if they continued they'd loose their licence.

[Nanny0gg]

Also as a pp pointed out, I don't know the extent of his bad behaviour,

He snatched a toy, he didn't mug his keyworker.

Unless he kicked off or threw a tantrum when he was told to give it back and (hopefully) had it explained that snatching isn't kind and we take it in turns, Time Out was a hell of an over-reaction.

[AuntMarch]

I will add that we do use "thinking time" for pre schoolers if they are not being gentle or they repeatedly ignore an adults instruction to stop something, but it is brief and usually if a child is doing one of those two things they need to be removed from a situation to be able to calm themselves down. The same punishment does not suit every "crime"!

[Squashpocket]

I don't know how long he was there (probably not long, it didn't take long for him to calm down once I arrived). Also as a pp pointed out, I don't know the extent of his bad behaviour, so I don't feel I can really complain about this specific incident. But It has made me concerned about their approach to discipline in general.