To be uneasy about nursery's discipline methods

[Squashpocket]

When I went to pick ds up from nursery he was crying at the door when I arrived, very distressed and saying that he wanted me, that he wanted to go home (even though he hadn't seen me yet at this point). His key worker explained that he'd been told off for snatching a toy and was put in time out, and "obviously they have to ignore him now" (her words).

This has made me feel quite uncomfortable. Is this normal? Ds is 2 and 3 months. I would absolutely want them to correct his bad behaviour, but I was thinking more along the lines of explaining why the behaviour was bad, getting him to apologise to the other child and then redirecting him to play elsewhere, rather than ignoring a distressed 2 year old. I'm going to ask the nursery for their discipline policy next time we're in, so at least we'll be on the same page from now on, but I'm just wondering AIBU to be upset about this or maybe I am being too sensitive?

I agree, LO not old enough at just two for time out, a better technique would be just a 'no snatching' hand toy back to other child and then distract LO with something else to play with. To stand a toddler in time out for snatching a toy is ridiculous, being a toddler is all about learning to play nicely along side others. I'd certainly raise it with them. I've worked in nurseries and I wouldn't have stood any child out for snatching,even an older nursery child, I just feel it could have been dealt with better.

Childminders have a much smaller ratio than nurseries though don't they?

I am not saying it's right (although I will say my DC pre-school uses time outs but the kids are older) but I think staffing ratios play a big part in why time out is used as a go to.

I work in a nursery and we use time out, it can be very effective. We don’t leap straight to a time out and I doubt your son’s nursery did either. Perhaps he had been repeatedly snatching? Perhaps he had been warned that he would be removed from the other children if he carried on? Perhaps he was refusing to give the toy back? There was probably was much more to it then you saw.

We stand near the child in time out but we don’t interact with them. Any crying is often more anger than distress.

It's not necessarily easier to effectively use time out - if you want to make sure the child stays put for the duration then that would require a member of staff to be supervising them. If they're not supervising it and it's not being followed through effectively then it's a pointless waste of energy anyway. I don't see how a quick lesson in sharing when the situation arises takes that much time to be honest

Thank you all for your very helpful replies. As I said, I'll ask for the discipline policy next time we're in, so I at least know what to expect. I feel a bit embarrassed that I haven't checked yet, ds was a baby when he started there so wasn't an issue then, but it obviously is now.

He will be moving up a room shortly so this feels like a good time for a chat with his new key worker as well.

. He already cries when I tell him it's a nursery day and at drop off most times, now I can maybe see why

I'd try another nursery 1 day a week if he's that unhappy.

My ds went to the same nursery that his dsis has been to but then they didn't have the xtra days available when I needed them so I put him in another nursery for that day. Within a month he would ask in the morning which nursery he was going to and look disappointed is it was nursery 1 and cheer and wave his hands around if it was nursery 2. I eventuality got him in the 2nd nursery for all the days and he was much happier.

My DD is 2 y 3 m exactly and I am pretty sure her nursery would never do this, certainly not in the under 3s rooms. She's not prone to snatching toys but all I ever see in the room is the staff gently correcting, talking about kind behaviour, and distracting by moving on to another activity. I think she'd be far too young to respond to time out.

I would be so annoyed at this.
Humilation and exclusion are not acceptable ways to treat adults so the same goes for children.
Children aren't born knowing how to share, it's hardly his fault for snatching a toy. It has to be taught through gentle parenting and nurturing methods.
If he is upsetting another child, I would expect the nursery to remove him from the situation, sit him down and chat to him gently about why he shouldn't take toys. Then distract him with something else to play with
My DS (who has SPD and possible ASD) is going to nursery next year and one of my first questions I asked staff when picking was re discipline as my son would have an absolute meltdown at being put in time out: when he misbehaves, he needs extra attention and care, not less or it will escalate, becoming worse for him, peers and staff. I picked one that said they follow parents lead on discipline and never use exclusion, time out or raised voices.

I wouldn't be using this nursery for my kids. My personal theory is that my ds is a brand new human being who wasn't given a rulebook at birth. So I need to teach him how to do everything and how to behave. I would expect trained nursery workers to have the time and patience to manage behavior.
It is very hard work managing toddler behavior and I have been known to shout at them when I'm tired of the fighting or whinging but it's not best practise and is pretty futile really.

Missyb1 yes I agree with you, I'm sure there will have been more to it than I saw. I don't want to go in all guns blazing and make a tit of myself.

Oh god, I'm starting to feel like pulling him out now. We do have the option to keep him at home until September next year, but we'd decided to keep him in for the social interaction. Maybe I'm wrong?

I have had reservations about the room he's in for a while, nothing major or concrete that I could raise with management just a general feeling that the staff morale was low and everything was a bit lacklustre. As I mentioned he's moving up a room soon, where things might be better. I'm torn now.

The time out supper nanny did didn't start till 3 iirc, and was for the same minutes as their age. Was your ds there longer than two mins?
We changed our son's nursery as they seemed to tell kids off a lot, lot of talk about "the boys are being bad today" and he seemed happier at nursery 2.

He's 2.
2 year olds snatch.
I give the toy back to the other child and explain they need to wait. If they snatch again I distract with something else or firmly tell them no, but give them a cuddle while they cry about it because frankly it is a harsh reality when you begin to learn that other children have feelings too and the world doesn't revolve around yours!

I don't know how long he was there (probably not long, it didn't take long for him to calm down once I arrived). Also as a pp pointed out, I don't know the extent of his bad behaviour, so I don't feel I can really complain about this specific incident. But It has made me concerned about their approach to discipline in general.

I will add that we do use "thinking time" for pre schoolers if they are not being gentle or they repeatedly ignore an adults instruction to stop something, but it is brief and usually if a child is doing one of those two things they need to be removed from a situation to be able to calm themselves down. The same punishment does not suit every "crime"!

Also as a pp pointed out, I don't know the extent of his bad behaviour,

He snatched a toy, he didn't mug his keyworker.

Unless he kicked off or threw a tantrum when he was told to give it back and (hopefully) had it explained that snatching isn't kind and we take it in turns, Time Out was a hell of an over-reaction.

Wow. Childcare centres aren't allowed to use that kind of discipline where I live. They'd get a warning and if they continued they'd loose their licence.

The Child Care Facility must use only constructive methods of guidance. This may include, but is not limited to, interventions such as conflict resolution, encouraging the use of language skills, redirecting, providing choices, using praise or positive reinforcement, recognizing a child’s strengths, and allowing for individual differences.

Is actually the law where we are. I'd be very unhappy at your situation.

nannyogg He has been known to throw a tantrum! I would still think time out is massively unproductive in that scenario though.

If you have the option of him being at home for the next year I would definitely do this. He doesn't need nursery to socialise, he will develop perfectly well with you. Nobody loves your baby as much as you.

2 year throws a tantrum, what a shock, oh hang on, nope, that's what they do.

I wouldn't expect a nursery to be doing time out as discipline and certainly not for a 2 year old. Far too young. We never used time out as I didn't think it was effective at all. I wouldn't be happy OP.

I wasn't happy when DD was at nursry, but like you it didn't seem anything concrete. I didn't pull her out as I thought it would be good for her as she was very clingy with me. In hindsight I should have just pulled her out. They were crap tbh and I wish I'd trusted my instincts.

I agree with others that he is too young for time out also not appropriate for snatching where simply giving the toy back and getting the child to say sorry is surely enough.

I wouldn't be happy to send my child somewhere when he cried every morning beyond the first few weeks. You say you can pull him out, why not look for another nursery and enrol him for a couple of mornings or day or two there

Honestly for being paid peanuts nursery staff have a lot to put up with.

He should understand time out by that age. If he can understand you explaining to him why his behaviour is wrong then he can understand time out. Should nursery just let him run around feral with no discipline?

If a child bites or repeatedly hits/pushes another child what do you believe the best method of discipline is?