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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

AIBU or should the teachers be university qualified?

67 replies

Clandestino · 17/10/2017 11:14

I just read the following article and I am horrified at the idea that the future generations will be taught by people going through a fast-track apprenticeship scheme. In my opinion, teachers should be highly qualified university graduates as they are supposed to be able to teach their subjects and also have the right pedagogical and psychological skills and knowledge. This is simply not right.

www.theguardian.com/education/2017/oct/17/teacher-undergrad-school-vacancies-cheap

OP posts:

2014newme · 17/10/2017 11:17

It's a course for graduates. It takes 18 months.
It refers to a possible future for non grads but that's been mooted for years and never gets anywhere.
So as you want teachers to be graduates and as they will continue to be so under this proposal I'm not seeing your issue?

Alexkate2468 · 17/10/2017 11:18

Totally agree with you. It completely degrades the profession and undermines the hard work and training of those who have spent years training. It is unfair that children are going to be 'taught' by people who really don't have the appropriate skills and qualifications.

Why this is happening is a whole other story but let's just say that if working circumstances were different for the 'good' teachers and there wasn't a recruitment problem, this wouldn't need to happen.

TeenTimesTwo · 17/10/2017 11:20

There is a seven hundred posts thread about this in secondary education that you may like to peruse:www.mumsnet.com/Talk/secondary/3047299-Teaching-to-stop-being-a-graduate-only-profession-18-year-old-teachers

Alexkate2468 · 17/10/2017 11:21

2014 - they mention a course for people without a degree..

2014newme · 17/10/2017 11:22

They do bit no specifics they've been mentioning it for years it never gets anywhere.
Also it's perfectky possible to become a teacher with a second rate degree from a crap university

goose1964 · 17/10/2017 11:25

My Dad started out as a licensed teacher in the 60s. He had to do a degree at a later stage when they got rid of thee license. He was an extraordinarily good primary school teacher so it may work again at that level. A degree is needed for secondary though

Alexkate2468 · 17/10/2017 11:28

Why don't you need s degree for primary? I find it a bit insulting. There is a lot more to primary teaching them people understand.

rupertpenryswife · 17/10/2017 11:29

Same sort of thing is happening in my profession, lower grade non university educated practitioners taking over a lot of my registered nurse roles, it really scares me I received a patient handover from one the other day, I asked who she was as didn't know the uniform, she described herself as being the old style nurse (enrolled nurse). These practitioners do not have the underpinning knowledge to assess patients and consider the whole situation it's a cheap way to staff the wards.

Original poster

Clandestino · 17/10/2017 11:34

goose, there were times when almost anyone with a bit of education could become a teacher. I don't think we should strive to go back to the past, especially as the demands on both, teachers and pupils have risen so high.
Teachers nowadays should be highly qualified and also have a great understanding of different issues they can encounter, such as pupils with specials needs etc. They should be able to recognise dyslexic or dysgraphic pupils who would have fallen through the cracks in the past and were written off as not capable of pursuing higher education. These are just examples where a common sense and love for teaching aren't enough.

OP posts:

GabriellaMontez · 17/10/2017 11:35

There are other ways to be highly qualified/experienced/published without an undergraduate degree. This could become more common in future as tuition fees change the route people take into their profession.

On the other hand, there are degrees that aren't worth the paper they're written on.

But I agree I hope it doesn't become a way to take on low standard trainees.

Nanny0gg · 17/10/2017 11:36

I do sometimes think it was a shame the CertEd was done away with. Some of the absolute best teachers I ever worked with had a CertEd.

ConfusedExpat · 17/10/2017 11:38

What with the way teachers are currently treated and how much pressure they're under for really not much money (when you consider the qualifications, patience, knowledge and unpaid overtime required) those "highly skilled" teachers you refer to are leaving in droves, especially as the pressure has increased in recent years.

I think eventually we will see lots of unqualified teachers in British classrooms - pay peanuts (and treat staff like shit and have no regard for their work life balance) and you get monkeys.

IamtheDevilsAvocado · 17/10/2017 11:40

It's just a race to the bottom.... All teachers should be post graduate... Education is soooo important.. Kids need to have the best and deserve it....

Don't we already have non degree qualified in classroom TA s?

When I came through school there were still teachers who had done teaching certificates...

Most of these teachers were good... But this was in the days that if you had 5 O levels and 2A levels you were in top 20-25 % of ability level...

Schmoopy · 17/10/2017 11:43

Don't we already have non degree qualified in classroom TA s?

TAs, as fantastic as some of them are, are not teachers though.

user1471443504 · 17/10/2017 11:53

Op are you objecting to people not being graduates or not doing a full B.Ed?
There are many routes into teaching these days which require a degree but also only consist of a 1 year intensive teacher training course which is mostly school based.

WhooooAmI24601 · 17/10/2017 11:55

As, as fantastic as some of them are, are not teachers though.

Agreed. Though I know of several schools locally which use TAs in place of teachers on a regular basis.

5rivers7hills · 17/10/2017 11:57

Teachers should be highly qualified, highly educated (and educated in 'education' not just their subject and then a bit of 'on the job training for a year ) and highly respected and paid.

It is a worthwhile profession that is being ground down by government policy, media and parent and pupil attitudes.

5rivers7hills · 17/10/2017 11:58

I think eventually we will see lots of unqualified teachers in British classrooms - pay peanuts (and treat staff like shit and have no regard for their work life balance) and you get monkeys.

100%

echt · 17/10/2017 11:58

Qualified teachers?

Pfft.

Who give a fuck?

See, mums' army/ ex-army/ex bankers.

echt · 17/10/2017 12:00

I so let myself down there.:o

Gives a fuck.

I have wine taken.

Pengggwn · 17/10/2017 12:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Squirmy65ghyg · 17/10/2017 12:04

The reference to single mothers is fucking unbelievable.

We are not some autonomous mass.

Seniorcitizen1 · 17/10/2017 12:10

It never used to be a graduate profession - when I was at school in 60s and 70s none of our primary school teachers were gradautes and in secondary school only our history teacher was a graduate. All the rest had been through 3 year teacher training college where they were taught to teach. We all left being able to read, write and with some maths skills.

Schmoopy · 17/10/2017 13:14

We all left being able to read, write and with some maths skills.

Children at year 6 are now being taught things I've never learnt and I got a B at GCSE (in the days when A was the top grade).

When I was teaching maths mastery in year 6, I had to learn the maths I was teaching on a week by week basis because I'd just never learnt it myself. "Some maths skills" just doesn't cut it anymore.

gillybeanz · 17/10/2017 13:30

Where do people think an NQT gets their experience.
teacher training courses teach the various theories and provide a placement.
How does this differ from somebody training through an apprenticeship, especially as they are graduates to begin with.

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