AIBU or should the teachers be university qualified?

[Clandestino]

I just read the following article and I am horrified at the idea that the future generations will be taught by people going through a fast-track apprenticeship scheme. In my opinion, teachers should be highly qualified university graduates as they are supposed to be able to teach their subjects and also have the right pedagogical and psychological skills and knowledge. This is simply not right.

www.theguardian.com/education/2017/oct/17/teacher-undergrad-school-vacancies-cheap

My partner gets £39000 a year

Top of the upper pay scale. So normally over ten years experience to get there and probably way longer now with performance-related pay. Not great is it?

the content of many degree courses (including mine) is utterly irrelevant to what you teach in school

It's not just about the content though is it? It's about the choice to immerse yourself in academic study. It's about choosing independent learning over anything else. Valuing knowledge.

Gove wanted an academic education for all. Now apparently we shouldn't even want the higher levels of academic education on offer for the people delivering that education.

The skills and qualities required to succeed in a university degree are not the same skills and qualities required to be an outstanding teacher

It's that simple

That’s why you also have to have further training to become a teacher. You don’t get to go directly from degree to fully qualified teacher. A good degree is a hurdle one should need to jump on the route to becoming a teacher.

However, if you aren’t able to get a degree, then I would questions your academic ability. It’s not actually hard to get a 2:1 in your subject if you are relatively intelligent and hardworking, that’s a minimum I’d expect from a teacher.

A poster on the previous page summed it up - nursing and teaching used to be he upper echelons of what a middle class intelligent woman could do as a career.

Now teaching is treated like a shit second rate option, so the overnment wants to fuck about with entry requirements to dumb down the profession so they can continue treating it as shit.

Medicine also excludes anyone who can't afford to go to university. I think addressing the affordability of undergraduate study is the way to deal with it rather than devaluing the knowledge base of teaching.

Medicine (and dentistry, architecture, veterinary studies and other courses which last 4,5,6+ years) goes further and excludes anyone who can't afford to go to university for many years before earning a salary. I know the change in loans is supposed to help this, but there are still many excellent students who dare not saddle themselves with so much debt before they have even started out.

Pengggyn Absolutely we want teachers to have demonstrated that they have the ability, perseverance and intellect to go through a degree course and come out with a decent qualification at the end, and that’s not the same group of people who have the grades to get on that degree course initially.

It'll have to be unqualified teachers, i'm afraid.
any qualified teacher with any bit of sense is leaving the profession.
and they are leaving in their droves.

put cunty shit in, expect even cuntier shit out.

Yes, exactly! There are too many careers that open only to those who can pay.

It’s about time we stopped using degrees to prevent candidates from applying for professional careers.

I’m on a career break from teaching whilst I raise my family and complete a second University Degree on a part time basis.

There is no way I will ever return to Teaching if this disastrous and disrespectful scheme takes place. I know of several other Teachers who have already left the profession due to the ridiculous workload, or workplace bullying, and I know of others who have said they will leave if this scheme starts.

There's a bit of a chicken and egg situation, though, Tanith

I think we want people who have the aptitude and capability to complete a degree in the subject that they want to teach. I don't know how we discern that with much accuracy other than by recruiting people who have demonstrated that by actually going and getting the degree already...

Incidentally, I do think that there is a small sub-set of teachers in specialist subjects like musical instrument tuition, some sports, dance etc where a degree is less important than ability to do as well as ability to teach. But these are very much minority areas: the majority of the timetable should be filled with appropriately and adequately qualified teachers IMHO

careers that open only to those who can pay

You don't pay for a degree upfront.

noble - you don't pay the tuition fees up front any more, true. But you do have to pay for it eventually. Ditto the loan for maintenance. Which doesn't cover all the costs of studying at many places, nor make up for the fact that it's nigh impossible to have a job and juggle the demands of the degree, which would otherwise offset some of the costs of study

Yes you have to pay for it eventually, but only if you are earning enough. Complaining that poor people can't afford university thus closing off certain professions to them rather ignores that they wouldn't be paying for uni until they can afford it.

Living costs is a slightly different issue, because poor people can't afford to live in lots of places.

It's the difference between having three years of tuition fees and living costs and having six years that I'm talking about noble. I thought I had made that clear in my posts, sorry if I didn't