To be considering voting Tory to make them accountable for Brexit

[Bearbehind]

I'm an ardent Remainer albeit a life long Tory voter and, when the GE was called I was adamant I wouldn't vote to endorse TMs plans.

Given Corbyns complete failure to acknowledge Brexit I don't want to vote for him (even though he is coming out of this campaign far better than TM).

But even if I didn't think that, it seems to me Labour winning would be the worst situation because, when the realisation that we can't have our cake and eat it hits with regard to the Brexit negotiations, it will be blamed on Labour not being 'strong and stable'.

I'm now thinking a vote to make the Tories accountable might not be such a bad thing?

Yawn.

I actually see your point. I feel like I'm between a rock and a hard place. Labour get in and are blamed for the fallout over brexit or the conservatives get in and austerity continues to be barbaric.

I read something on here yesterday about a gentleman's struggle to claim financial support whilst dying of terminal cancer. If labour has to be the scapegoat for brexit it seems like the lesser of two evils.

Some people I know are staunch, passionate remaiders and Corbyn supporters.

Don't get it, myself.

I don't quite get the point of your post? You are a lifelong Tory voter who is going to vote Tory again?

May would be a disaster re Brexit negotiations. She can't even handle a studio audience and won't debate Corbyn face to face, so why she fancies her chances with 'Europe' is anyone's guess.

Yes, she would be accountable, but it would be the rest of us paying for her arrogant, self-obsessed, self aggrandising delusional fantasy.

Don't do it.

phoebe, I was adamant I wouldn't vote this time Tory because of TM's stance on Brexit

I suppose that would make sense if only the Tories suffered from a bad deal but that's not the case, is it?

The British don't seem to realise that there aren't two sides on the Brexit negotiations, everyone wants the UK to be left in a robust position because it's a big country with a large economy, that we do a lot of business with. Anything else is just shooting ourselves in the foot.

Most of the negotiating will be done between members of the civil service, with the political types only coming in at the end to sign the papers. The U.K. will send in the same teams of Whitehall suits, no matter who wins.

Ain't nobody got time for dick swinging and that's all May is telling you all she's bringing to the party.

But what is the alternative christina?

My favoured option until now was spoiling my ballot paper in protest at the lack of options but it doesn't change the fact someone has to win.

Bearbehind I see. Well as a lifelong Labour supporter I would advise that you vote Labour then! I do see your point about making Tories accountable for the mess they have got us in, but I still wouldn't vote for them because of what's in their manifesto.

Is it just May's stance on Brexit that you don't like?

In all seriousness Bearbehind would you consider voting tactically?

Lib Dem are pro-remain.
I will probably vote for the candidate who I think is best for the constituency, rather than for any party.

Think about the type of Brexit you want, with the Tories in charge it would be a race to the bottom in terms of workers rights, the environment etc. They would be accountable but by then the damage will be done. At least with Labour there's more chance of a 'fair' Brexit. May's whole approach so far has hardly inspired confidence.

phoebe I don't like the fact TM has shown couldn't stand by a decision if her life depended on it so what you think you are voting for isn't necessarily what you'd get anyway.

So far we have had u turns on

• increasing NI
• calling a snap GE
• putting a cap on dementia tax

Then there's the fact she's dragged fox hunting back into the debate unnecessarily just because she was so arrogant about her majority she thought she'd get away with it.

Re Brexit- I fundamentally disagree with the fact she has decided everyone wants 'hard' Brexit and we are heading for her vision rather than allowing any consultation.

I realise none of this makes a case for voting for her in normal circumstances but these are odd times.

If there were a credible alternative I'd vote for them in shot but there's not so accountability seems the only upside here.

It's when you do what you believe if that you are strong. It is when you don't do what you believe in you are weak.

Interesting. So what are your views on the state of the NHS, police service, education, health and social care Bearbehind?

Do you honestly think this election is just about 'Brexit' and that 'no deal is better than a bad deal' actually means anything? The EU will simply laugh and get back to business as TM stamps her feet and shouts 'I'm strong and stable'.

If either of the things mentioned in my first paragraph mean anything to you, you know very well that there is a credible alternative.

The Tories won't suffer any consequences from Brexit.

The ones who will suffer are the ordinary people.

Ain't that the truth.

Ditto the 2008 financial crisis and every financial decision they've ever made.

I will not be voting tory due to education and the NHS

Its pissing me off that some parties seem to be rerunning brexit

Ukip put a leaflet through my door today, saying that our constituency voted leave and our tory mp voted remain so i should vote for UKIP

Twats

I really can't see that electing a government who have form for selling off anything they can get their hands on for short term gain, and hoping that they will take a different tack for Brexit makes any sense at all. They will sell us down the river as soon as they sniff a profit for their friends and themselves.
Deliberately picking the party most like to be shunned by the EU seems a strange was to limit the fallout.

It's going to happen anyway. I'm a resigned remainer.

So would you rather Boris Johnson deal with it or Keir Starmer?

I think Ken Loach covered that when he described Boris Johnson being made Foreign Secretary the 'day that irony died.'

It won't matter who is "accountable" for it, it will matter who has to pay to pick up the pieces. The question is whether the Tories or Labour would do a better job of salvaging those pieces.

TM is grossly unappealing, but Corbyn's free sweeties for all paid for by the few "high" earners and businesses who invest here and employ people here is terrifying.

The responsibility for this whole shambles rests with 17,410,742 people.

I agree Corbyn will make a complete dogs dinner of Brexit. I will vote for May to get us the best deal.

What is Corbyn offering re NHS, education, police etc that can actually be delivered?

Whoever wins, the focus is going to be on dealing with the fallout from Brexit for at least the next 5 years whether you like it or not.

I honestly feel like we are fucked already because Brexit is going to be such an economic disaster across the board we won't be picking out specifics like the NHS to worry about.

I'd love to be convinced I'm wrong though.