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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Court and everyone all wrong and I am right

126 replies

AtSea1979 · 30/12/2016 06:52

But how?

How is it possible that so many professional can be wrong and merely Joe Bloggs (me) be right? How on earth do I convince a judge that all these experienced professionals are actually wrong?

My DS has been abused my his DF, DF has played a blinder and everyone believes him and the more people who believe him the more other people think they must be right so they believe him and the court bundle grows with more 'evidence' and professionals saying XH is right and DS must have made it up.
Regardless of what I believe, I have tried to stay out of it, I have supported DS (11) but have never asked DS questions or advised him just reassured him that I'm here for him. XH is claiming that I put DS up to it, that I coerced him in to making allegations. Professionals say DS's account of things is inconsistent, in my mind that is more proof that he's being honest, if it was water right I'd be more suspicious that it was rehearsed. So far we have an SW, police, XH friends, CAFCASS and recently a psychologist all beleiving XH. The psychologist didn't even give it a chance, she just read everyone else's report and decide DS must be lying and filed a report saying this. I'm back in court next week and know the judge is going to think this highly paid, experienced psychologist must be right.
How can the justice system be so flawed? Totally lost faith is honesty prevailing

OP posts:

Fallonjamie · 30/12/2016 07:10

There must be other evidence/information they're going on rather than just your exs word for it?.

helpimitchy · 30/12/2016 07:21

Okay, you need to be very careful regarding how you move forward with this as it's not unknown for the courts to label mothers who accuse fathers of abuse against the children. They consider that it's a form of emotional abuse against the child which is designed to alienate the child from the father.

Google 'perverse reversal of custody'

I know somebody who lost residence of her ds due to the father abusing the child and the mother trying to fight very hard against him seeing him. I know it's extremely painful for you if he has abused by his father, but you need to know what is going through the minds of these so called professionals.

What does your solicitor advise?

BrightOranges · 30/12/2016 07:22

How do you know it happened? Did you witness it? As much as you don't want to think your DS has made it up, this may be the case.

However, if he was abused then I am very sorry for you both. Sometimes the justice system is flawed.

NotStoppedAllDay · 30/12/2016 07:50

What outcome are you aiming for?

blueskyinmarch · 30/12/2016 08:37

What makes you think your DS was definitely abused? Was in physical or sexual allegations? I have worked in this area as a child protection SW and most children who have been abused are very consistent in their accounts. I assume they have carried out a CP interview with him?

DJBaggySmalls · 30/12/2016 08:42

OP, can you find your own reliable expert witness?

Children are often inconsistent in some details, especially if it is a parent or they have been in some other way coerced.
Children dont want to get people into trouble, so at the beginning may play down some details, gloss over, or just not be ready to tell all.

NotStoppedAllDay · 30/12/2016 08:44

What if op does find her own 'reliable witness'.....and that witness then agrees with the judge?

Op will discredit him/her

blueskyinmarch · 30/12/2016 08:52

There is a bog difference between a child who is reluctant to disclose and a child who is inconsistent in their account. Any skilled interviewer would be able to tell the difference.

If a child is reluctant to disclose and there is no physical evidence then the best that could be said is that it isn’t possible to say one way or the other whether the child has been abused.

It sounds like in this case all the professionals are quite sure that the child has not been abused based on the account they have given.

I don’t know any of the details of this situation so i cannot make any other comment. I am just giving a professionals opinion about how the process works.

NewNNfor2017 · 30/12/2016 08:54

The problem is OP that if the allegation had been made against you, and all those professionals used their expertise to judge that it was not true, you wouldn't be discrediting their judgement, would you?

These reports are not someone's ill informed opinion. They are based on professional standards and the findings of decades of research.

To ignore that would result in many more DCs being harmed.
No system is perfect, but there has to be some process to ensure that the majority of DCs are protected.

That's no comfort to you and your DC I know, but may go some way to highlight the reasons why you are unlikely to succeed in any attempt to discredit evidence with professional foundations.

Rixera · 30/12/2016 08:59

I'm so sorry for everything you and your son have been through.
Its very unfair as abuse is something that happens behind closed doors, is often only known to the perpetrator and victim, and doesn't always leave evidence behind. Then you get into 'its a she said he said situation' with the police and you want to punch everybody in the face. Or I did anyway.

Memory is fallible, and trauma memory especially so- meaning the exact details may not be 100% consistent but the meaning, the feeling, is. Think about your first ever school exam. It was terrifying (presumably.) But does that mean you remember how many people were in the hall? What the invigilator was wearing? Who was sitting to your left? Not unless they explicitly made an impression at the time because your mind is too busy being occupied with fear, determination, whatever it is you felt while looking at your paper. And that's only something ordinarily scary, not a full on trauma. Just because you misremember the colour of your pen doesn't mean you're lying about completing the test.

SparklyTwinkleGlitter · 30/12/2016 09:21

There is a bog difference between a child who is reluctant to disclose and a child who is inconsistent in their account. Any skilled interviewer would be able to tell the difference.

That's the biggest problem you face OP. So called experts with massive egos. Convinced of their infallibility.

There have been many miscarriages of justice based on expert testimony that was only discredited much later when the damage had been done.

You need a very good solicitor who is prepared to work hard on your case.

HappyFlappy · 30/12/2016 09:29

I am so sorry that you and your DS are going through this horror.

Continue to support him as much as you can. I think he is of an age where the court will take his opinion into consideration when it comes to access anyway, so even though his father may be able to fool the professionals, your son may be able to refuse to have contact, or at least insist on contact in public places only.

Your poor child must be in an awful state, and may not know what is happening, and may even be beginning to doubt himself. All the things an abuser threatens (e.g. No-one will believe you) must seem to be coming true.

Stay strong for him, get a good lawyer - and it might be worth contacting the NSPCC for advice and support.

Hoping all works out well for your family.

Trifleorbust · 30/12/2016 09:47

Is there a reason why you are
inclined to believe him?

lougle · 30/12/2016 09:52

AtSea has it crossed your mind that perhaps the professionals are right? Is it possible, do you think, that your DS could have either made an exaggerated claim, or even said something in the heat of the moment that he now can't retract because it's all gone too far and has got so serious? In those situations he would still desperately need help, but the help he would need would be to undo the situation he finds himself in. Children do, sometimes, not often, but sometimes, say things to indicate that they are upset with their relationship with someone, that are accusatory. Small children sometimes say they've been hit when they haven't, because they had cross words with a parent.

I think that if many professionals are all concluding that your exH has not abused your DS and that his evidence is not reliable, at his age, then you should be giving serious thought to whether you should be more concerned for his emotional wellbeing and whether he is actually giving a 'cry for help' in another sense.

dollydaydream114 · 30/12/2016 09:56

I'm really sorry that you and your son are obviously going through a very difficult time, but nobody here can reasonably say any more than that, really.

Of course you believe your son - he's your son and you love him very much and want to protect him. But that's also the problem: the professionals involved in handling the case are neutral, and you are not. You can't possibly be objective about the situation (and nor would anyone ever reasonably expect you to be - no parent ever could be).

I know what you're going through is incredibly difficult and confusing and any parent's worst nightmare, but all you can do is focus on your forthcoming court case and do the best you can to support your son (while, of course, not telling him what to say). Hopefully your solicitor can help you through this.

Ilovecaindingle · 30/12/2016 09:59

So sorry this is happening. I too went through hell with a so called perfect ex and kids - get a new legal rep and go through ALL of the paperwork again. I myself did find a query which when my barrister brought it up did actually bring the cafcass case crumbling down and my ex was also exposed as a liar!! AND I WON! Go through all the reports and look for something so off it needs re looking at. Professionals aren't flawless you just need to expose the flaw. Good luck.

Crumbs1 · 30/12/2016 10:06

We have a well respected justice system - apart from hating your ex what grounds are you basing it on? What are you wanting? To keep harking on may well turn your child into a victim with all the emotional baggage that goes with it. Maybe try and help,him put it behind him, refuse to be driven down by experience and get on with enjoying his life.

Christmassnake · 30/12/2016 10:07

Didn't want to read and run...how awful,so sorry for your son and you...surely your son just needs to refuse to see his dad?. He's nearly 12 mine were strapping lads by age 12 I couldn't of made them see someone they didn't want to.....he puts his foot down and refuses to see Xh and you say you can't make him...job done??? I don't know would a court be so stupid to make a teenager see a parent they didn't want to????

pipsqueak25 · 30/12/2016 10:07

sorry but there must be something that isn't adding up somewhere in ds's account, what sort of abuse supposedly happened?[i say that because nothing has been proved as yet], it is all very distressing for you and ds though.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 30/12/2016 10:08

I went through something vaguely similar and an independent expert explained to me how it works. One expert reports. They get others to report. They see each report. This means there's a lot of pressure to agree with each other. Essentially they inevitably move to a consensus. Producing a report which contradicts the others becomes almost impossible because of the danger to the career of anyone who disagrees. If they all say the same and they're wrong, well they were all fooled. If they're right, all well and good. So you always find that all the experts agree. It's safer for them that way.

pipsqueak25 · 30/12/2016 10:10

op is it possible to get back to us now you've has time to read and think about it abit more ? we all want the best for you and ds,

cherrycrumblecustard · 30/12/2016 10:10

Good grief.

We believe you, except when you post a thread on Mumsnet and then we obviously don't?

pipsqueak25 · 30/12/2016 10:12

sorry, meant to ask do you have other dc ? if so has there been a problem with them and your ex ? was your ex abusive to you ?

ExConstance · 30/12/2016 10:28

My legal experience in family law is very out of date but if the allegation is a serious one is it not usual for the child to have a guardian ad litem to put forward their views and separate legal representation?

Boundaries · 30/12/2016 10:31

I don't think an open internet forum is the right place for this discussion.

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