Court and everyone all wrong and I am right

[AtSea1979]

But how?

How is it possible that so many professional can be wrong and merely Joe Bloggs (me) be right? How on earth do I convince a judge that all these experienced professionals are actually wrong?

My DS has been abused my his DF, DF has played a blinder and everyone believes him and the more people who believe him the more other people think they must be right so they believe him and the court bundle grows with more 'evidence' and professionals saying XH is right and DS must have made it up.
Regardless of what I believe, I have tried to stay out of it, I have supported DS (11) but have never asked DS questions or advised him just reassured him that I'm here for him. XH is claiming that I put DS up to it, that I coerced him in to making allegations. Professionals say DS's account of things is inconsistent, in my mind that is more proof that he's being honest, if it was water right I'd be more suspicious that it was rehearsed. So far we have an SW, police, XH friends, CAFCASS and recently a psychologist all beleiving XH. The psychologist didn't even give it a chance, she just read everyone else's report and decide DS must be lying and filed a report saying this. I'm back in court next week and know the judge is going to think this highly paid, experienced psychologist must be right.
How can the justice system be so flawed? Totally lost faith is honesty prevailing

Well there is a lot more to it, as it's been nearly a year. Final hearing in a few days and they are going to reinstate access as per professionals advice. DS doesn't not want to see him so they are going to turn up at his school without warning. I don't think DS is strong enough to stand up to him. Yes I believe DS, I have had my doubts at times but then I see the subtle things in DS and realise it's true.

I believe you.

I went through this.

I was labelled emotionally abusive by social workers to the children as I had such a bad opinion of their Father I was committing parental alienation apparently . I was told by my solicitor if the kids refused to go again there was a good chance I would lose them.

Two sets of direct violence towards the kids were declared inconsistent as reported by DD and therefore disregarded by social services. One referral from the doctor (unbeknownst to me) over concerns one DC was being denied access to medication was also ignored (found this out in the final report). Police reports on a violent incident at handover were dismissed as Dad getting a little bit understandably upset as mum was witholding the children (despite three other adults testifying that he was in a state when he arrived and was making rather unpleasant threats ).

I do believe the third report (this time both children saying the same thing as DS with SN was now also capable of saying what happened) would also have been disregarded had the hospital not recorded a minor injury as a result of the incident. Even then the social services doesn't record that he hurt the kids, it states that both children say this, hospital record an injury and there is no explanation from dad . Oh and both kids miss their Dad. (They do but that doesn't mean they should have to go through what they did)

The rampant emotional abuse was ignored and the affects of the rampant emotion abuse generally pushed onto me.

8 years between violence first being reported and contact finally stopping. Even then not supported entirely by social services who werent really prepared to go further than to support indirect contact. Solicitors still weren't convinced contact would necessarily stop if it went to court. Fortunately it hasn't yet.

My advice don't stop contact. Just put every flaming condition in the way of it you can. Drugs tests, parenting courses, a period of stable indirect contact (not to be rushed at the kids pace not his) then supervised. I was slowly hammering down the time they had to spend with him before it all exploded.

I'm so sorry you are going through this.

OP, is this family court or criminal court?

Family court

Fwiw I told the kids the truth. I couldn't stop them going and there was a good chance they would end up living with him if they did. Then they went. Sometimes it went well sometimes it didn't often there was unpleasantness although usually that was directed towards me. Trying to explain to the head after she had reported to ss that I had to send them even though I knew they weren't safe was a particularly difficult meeting.

I then spent the best part of 8 years propping them up emotionally, trying to teach good emotional boundaries and how you express them, teaching DS how to report past events then how to report something that made him unhappy (it made school targets). Whilst doing this is was also trying to tell them to stay on his good side even though this often contradicted the above.

It did lots of harm. DD developed symptoms that with hind sight look like an attachment disorder and a rampant distrust of adults. One year clear though both kids are doing spectacularly well and much of the damage has been reversed. There has been a lot of talking (not with a counsellor DD didn't trust them).

You do it because you have too, because sometimes there is no choice.

Family court, there lies the problem, in my opinion. Abuse is criminal, shouldn't it be with a jury in a criminal court?

You'd think

Frankly who would want to put their child through being a witness against their dad in criminal court. It's bad enough in a small familiar room talking to a social worker and having every little thing pulled apart. Police were involved the last time as the allegations were bloody unpleasant. How is wasn't taken forward as a police matter I don't know, but in all honesty I'm glad it wasn't

I thought in a criminal court the child testimony was recorded elsewhere then used in the court?

Police have been involved, not enough evidence.
My life has been ripped apart for a year, seeing DS so distressed, my parents having sleepless nights, my DD (not XH's) becoming more withdrawn. How can they honestly think I would do that? I'm totally perplexed by the way they are so blinded to what seems blatantly obvious to me.

Yes Vapours (in Scotland at least), child witnesses always give evidence by CCTV from another room or remote site, with a supporter present. In criminal cases, that is.

They do still come to court but they aren't expected to stand in the dock.

Sorry witness box, not dock! Apologies!

Because you have a totally perspective than anyone else.

You know your ex better you know your child better, you know you better.

The experts see such a thin slice of life.

My kids found it hard enough to tell the nurse at the hospital. They found the social worker very difficult because he was consistently trying to establish whether they had got the wrong end of the stick as he had seem such a nice caring father to him and missed them so much.

DD found the whole incident difficult and embarrassing to recount. She loves her dad in spite of what he did. It's really hard to appreciate how difficult it is to provide evidence against someone under those circumstances. Whether it's a court room or a side room really isn't the biggest factor

I also believe you. I am so sorry you are going through this, the system is mad. I also have an abusive ex who manages to charm and manipulate every single person around him. Every professional sided with him despite there being evidence, he talked his way out of it. It was a horrific time.

What I have learned is that even if there is loads of evidence that a parent is abusive courts often just allow contact anyway, I have many friends this has happened to.

I'm so sorry you are going through this.

Sorry you and ds going through this, op. Have you seen the reports yet for the final hearing? Don't tell us what's in them, but is there anything at all you can see that would support ds? So sorry for you, family court is hell.

Yes I've seen the reports, so utterly biased I was in total shock when I read it. Lots of lies, proof of those lies but honestly no one listens. Their agenda is to reestablish contact no matter what.

It's still really unclear to me (and I suspect to everyone else) why you are so convinced that the experts are wrong. I don't expect you to tell us, but is there any evidence to support the allegations? You can't reasonably expect outside parties to automatically believe your DS.

Someone asked what you can do. Take a deep breath

Believe in your child. Believe in what you know. He is massively gaslighting on epic scale and using people with authority to tighten the choke hold. Hold on to your truth help your child hold onto their truth.

Be honest with your child. Explain that other people can't always see what they see, that they are limited by what they can and can't do.

Teach your child storing emotional boundaries.

Be ready when the endgame does happen. (I wasn't. I was virtually hysterical in the hospital that I couldn't stop him and I was terrified that social services would believe him again. The nurse was very patient but apparently it sounded terrifying from the waiting room) A leopard doesn't usually change it's spots. As they start standing up for who they are and what they want the risk ramps up significantly. Learn from the experiences you have had with professionals but also know it won't necessarily go the same way as before.

I have been in your exact situation. It is beyond stressful, we went through 4 years of hell thanks to so called experts getting things wrong and believing the words of an abusive liar above those of a child victim. After countless reports, psychologists, CAFCASS, police involvement and supervised visits between my youngest and her abusive father I decided enough was enough when my child returned with a broken wrist. I sacked my lawyer, represented myself in court and stood my ground until someone listened. I managed to get independent legal representation for my kids and removed myself completely from the whole process as the whole thing seemed to be more about my "lies" than anything my children were saying. The whole case collapsed - suddenly the judge, professionals and lawyers saw it all from my children' point of view. Their father was banned from any contact and the police case remains open to this day. Stay strong - my heart goes out to you.

Toffee, the reason i'm talking about criminal court with a jury is because in my experience/opinion the family court was a complete and utter farce!! Professionals lied, other professionals copied, hearsay was used and dc suffered, all under the watch of guardian and magistrates. Surely a jury would be better? And before all the do-gooding professionals including Spero, come on in utter denial, it did happen. It was my experience not yours, my kids were damaged not yours, so bog off!

OP have you put these proofs of lies down in writing to be put on the solicitors files for future reference?
What the court knows is that in an overwhelming number of cases the professionals accept the child's allegations so when the professionals state there is no evidence DS is telling the truth, then Family Court Judge is almost certainly bound to accept that. The occasional stroppy judge will ask for more reports if she/he has doubts but that is extremely rare.
Is it possible your DS has exaggerated the abuse, therefore making the actual abuse appear less credible? Is it possible DS has exaggerated out of loyalty to you? Has exH used contact to slag you off, thus upsetting DD?
You need to talk to your solicitor about likely outcomes. Better to agree on contact regime than to resist and have a more draconian one forced on the children. Appear to be compliant, be truthful with your DC and encourage them to comply in the meantime. Further along the line, if DS still very resistant you'll have better grounds to apply for reduction of contact, indirect contact etc and finally nc.

I'm sorry you are going through this, and sorry for the other posters who have experienced this. I had a similar experience myself.

Agree with that "appear to be compliant" because family court is oppression. I was late forties and it was the first time I had encountered oppression. What a shock to the system that was!

I'm not sure discussing this on the internet will be good for you if other parties found out - it is an ongoing case.