To think ethics in shopping count? (Aldi and Lidl)

[penguinpear]

There was an article in the Sunday Times this weekend about dairy farming. Over the past decade the number of dairy farmers has halved and more are going out of business all the time.

Aldi and Lidl are reported to pay only 56-59p for each four pints they sell. In contrast Tesco pay 73p and m&s 78p.

I am really upset by this, as I think we have a bleak future if people care only for their own pockets and not anyone else, including animals whose welfare will get worse if people have no interest in the supply chain.

Here here.

I do shop in Aldi and Lidl, but I make the effort to buy local milk

I am a dairy farmers daughter though

Or is it hear hear?

Ethics in farming count as well, but try telling the farmimg lobby that.

If someone has a family to feed, and a very tight budget then sometimes ethics go out the window if it means that their family is full. In an ideal world we would all be in the position to buy only the most ethnicly sourced food, but alas some people just can't afford it.

It's hear hear

I get milk delivered still as I assume that's ethically better: am I right, Thursday?

Penguin, what did it say about Morrisons? I usually top up from there or Tesco if I need to.

Aldi have a far bigger selection of outdoor-bred pork products than sainsburys, it's one of the reasons I go there. There is no outdoor bred ham in my local sainsburys at all.

I do get my milk from the milkman though as its local

According to our milkman from a local dairy farm, Tesco make a loss of something like 1p on every pint of milk they sell. They make their profit from all the bread, cheese, eggs etc you buy with it.

Outdoor bred just means piglets are outside for 4 weeks. Then inside.

Outdoor bred does not equal free range or outdoor reared.

I learned this on MN!

I agree, penguin. I shop at Lidl, and buy my milk locally.

While appreciating the argument of "needs must", if we don't do something about it, we will no longer have a local milk market; we will be consuming factory milk like the US, which will be imported.

We can no longer ignore the impact we have having on our environment, both great and small. To argue 'price' against that is to be rearranging deckchairs on a sinking Titanic. Truly.

Oh farmers are always moaning, but you never see a poor one. 'struggling' means they won't be able to change their Landrover this year.

Posted too soon.

We get 6 pints delivered each week. It is really pricey and is working out at about £4 a week. Which is quite a lot when you think about it. As much as I care about animal welfare and our local farms we will probably return to buying milk from supermarkets soon.

I would love to shop ethically but it just isn't really affordable for us.

Yabu, it's fine to think ethics when you can afford it. But there are many who can't!

I understand that feeding families is essential, but as tesco sell 4 pints for £1 surely this is affordable?

The big supermarkets (Tesco in particular) are renowned for the poor way they treat their suppliers. Milk is the only thing I will happily buy from them. They push and push their suppliers to breaking point because of the profit they think they should make. Aldi and Lidl don't do this as much, they are happy to make a much smaller profit per item.

YABU, ethics are a luxury that many cannot afford these days. The government is screwing all workers, including farmers. I am fortunate to be able to pay a little more (have to really because of religious dietary requirements), but not everyone can and being judgey doesn't change things, just makes people feel worse.

TBH as someone who lives in Cumbria and is surrounded by farms and farmers id say the have considerably more money than me (( and yow ))

We, however are on the bones of our arse. Literally. So the little milk we do buy does tend to be cheaper. Sorry, but ethics go out of the window when you're skint.

I would shop locally more but sadly I couldnt afford to step over the threshhold of the straw filled, poncy mcponce farm shops with artisan stamped on everything so will stick to aldi and the reduced veg aisle in Asda. It's shit living like this but somebody has to I s'pose.

'YABU, ethics are a luxury that many cannot afford these days.'

It's hard if you have to pay more to shop ethically, and you just don't have the means. So your choices are pay more or abstain.
The entire, shameful supply chain needs looking at and tackling ethically, from product to producers, consumers and all the links in between.
Making consumers feel guilty because they buy the cheapest available through lack of cash isn't very ethical.

Given the lower prices of certain supermarkets, it shouldn't come SS a surprise that their suppliers get a raw deal. No different to clothes shops.

Some people don't care about the environment or supply chain and some do. It's something that should be taught more in schools so children can make their own informed choices as adults.

It is taught in many schools.
Doesn't change the finances, or the ethics of big businesses.

yanbu. but I have organic milk delivered and spend stupid money on organic meat a couple of times a month.

YANBU. This is milk we are talking about, albeit a necessity. Animal welfare is important to me so I would rather go without meat etc if I cannot afford meat where I am happy with it's life and final end.

As for the comment about farmers in their new Land Rovers, these would be purchased by the farm, ie business. I live in a very rural area and the only farmers I know who are wealthy are ones that have properties to let out or run suckler herds. There are very few dairy farmers left round here and the ones that still have dairy cows make a loss on that side of the business.

I'm alarmed at the attitude of many/most supermarkets towards driving the price of milk down (along with other things I'm sure).

We have milk delivered and it is an extravagance, but it's as much for the convenience as anything else (started when we had a new baby and carried on since).

My view is that if you can afford it (& we try to be frugal in other ways) it's a good thing to have milk delivered, but of course it's down to personal preferences/situation.

choc are you being serious? My uncle who is a farmer (beef and sheep) is £1000's in debt, he lives in a house with half the roof missing and he stays in one room, the kitchen. He has no heating in the house, except a wood fire which he also cooks on.

Another farmers I know, a dairy farmer, is also in a lot of debt....he might not look like he is as he has just bought a new tractor. Actually he has 'bought' the tractor using his overdraft because he needs a tractor to feed his cattle.

The majority of farmers I know, I live in a rural area and I know a lot of farmers, are certainly not rich. Yes you do get some that are but they are generally big farms where often the actual owner does not work, or even live, on the farm. Big farms where they employ farm managers and lots of staff make money but your average farmer (like the ones I know) don't they just break even.

They want to get out of farming because it is so shit and they work so hard for so little but don't know what else to do. They don't want to sell the family farm which their families have owned for generations. The suicide rate in farmers is very high, if they are all so rich and moaning about nothing why is that?

A small firm I once worked for used to be a Tesco supplier. They had to regularly wait four or five months for Tesco to pay their invoices.

If you wanted to supply them, you had to abide by their terms and conditions of payment and that seemed to mean that they paid you months in arrears and you had to lump it.

Farmers are generally asset rich and cash poor, they can't really liquidise those assets as they need them to run the farms properly.