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Original poster

To think ethics in shopping count? (Aldi and Lidl)

133 replies

penguinpear · 19/01/2015 08:15

There was an article in the Sunday Times this weekend about dairy farming. Over the past decade the number of dairy farmers has halved and more are going out of business all the time.

Aldi and Lidl are reported to pay only 56-59p for each four pints they sell. In contrast Tesco pay 73p and m&s 78p.

I am really upset by this, as I think we have a bleak future if people care only for their own pockets and not anyone else, including animals whose welfare will get worse if people have no interest in the supply chain.

OP posts:
annadina · 19/01/2015 09:36

Farmers are seen as rich because they live in big house in the country and drive a big car. Simple reasoning by simple people. Asset rich and cash poor, it's really difficult to pay for you electric with a bag of wheat.
Aldi sells a lot of UK produced meat, I did see an article about percentages compared with the major multiples, might go look for it again.

AuntieStella · 19/01/2015 09:37

I don't think it would be terribly good for the nation if we no longer had any milk production (we're already an importer).

I think it is wrong to force producers to sell anything for less than its production price (especially if that production price does not include paying adequate wages).

(OTOH, I'd quite like to see buyers who have been able to secure deals that drive their suppliers to the wall take over NHS procurement for a while).

Bogeyface · 19/01/2015 09:41

I have said many times on MN, sometimes a conscience is too expensive and a luxury many cant afford.

I try to shop with ethics in mind, but when we were surviving on JSA and redundancy money, that had to last as long as possible, ethics went out of the window.

That said, with regards to milk prices, the issue isnt with people buying cheap milk because if milk costs 89p for 2 litres or £1.50 for 2 litres, then thats what people will pay. Its the buyers who drive such a hard bargain in order to be able to sell it at 89p that are the problem. If every store had to sell at £1.50 then they would and it would still be sold.

Gileswithachainsaw · 19/01/2015 09:42

Yanbu.

except it's really not that simple is it.

People aren't just money poor they are time poor. sourcing affordable ethical produce and managing to do so for the entire shop I can imagine being a very time consuming project.

plus I time. alot of people are misguided about what it all means.

free range is not what you think.

organic is not what you think.

Your paying several times the price for someone to mis lead you. You will be surprised how low standards need to be in. order for something to call itself free range or whatever.

Mrsjayy · 19/01/2015 09:42

Being ethical is fine if you can afford imo some people can't but I do think you are right though I buy locally and at tescos just because that is where I shop but I don't know what my local shop is paying the dairy for milk and tbh the dairy owner has a huge house and a fuck off big jeep so I think they are doing alright

Notso · 19/01/2015 09:44

I try and shop ethically but it's difficult. The co-op for example have a good reputation for treating suppliers fairly etc, but I have a family member who works for them and they have treated her appallingly.

Mrsjayy · 19/01/2015 09:45

I agree giles organic and free range conditions are not as good as they sound

Mrsjayy · 19/01/2015 09:47

notso my mum works in a co op working conditions are terrible yet they need to put up with it but it is fine they sell organic milk and happy eggs!

ChocLover2015 · 19/01/2015 09:52

'Farmers are seen as rich because they live in big house in the country and drive a big car'

They drive big expensive new cars and go on exotic holidays where i come from!.

Gileswithachainsaw · 19/01/2015 09:53

Honestly. I think.of people saw what really went on. I mean really really went on.

no one would be buying meat or dairy.

or anything tbh.

PlumpingUpPartridge · 19/01/2015 09:57

That's pretty much why I went vegan Giles! I didn't feel like I could trust any of the labels to actually mean what they said

Original poster
penguinpear · 19/01/2015 09:59

Some farmers may be wealthy but perhaps they have other income, like livery stables. The fact that 60 dairy farmers gave up last month (and more each month) suggests that many aren't wealthy.

OP posts:
Gileswithachainsaw · 19/01/2015 10:03

I remember seeing undercover footage of chickens.

free range doesn't mean outside.

It just new and they have to have access to outside for some of the day.

so a dark dingy barn with a door or window open to a muddy messy ploy of land and they can call itself free range.

The amount of space they needed per bird is tiny too. so that's why they get away with so many birds per barn.

so hundreds of birds in a barn with beaks clipped off or ripped to shreds from a fight with access to mud.

There's your free range chicken.

If your not going to get the conditions you think your paying for why bother paying the extra?

Notso · 19/01/2015 10:05

I agree totally Mrsjayy it's my Mum who works in one too. She is desperate to leave but my Dad has just been made redundant so they can't afford for her to Sad. I know it's not just co-op, other supermarkets do the same but it seems worse from co-op because they make out they are all about the ethics.

Mrsjayy · 19/01/2015 10:09

Mass produced meat milk and poultry can only be assured ethical unless you can trace the source so yes cows are out in fields eating grass but they are still bunged into a lorry to go to slaughter stressed and squashed in and herded out to be killed

Mrsjayy · 19/01/2015 10:12

It is rubbish notso eh co op was set up to look after their employees customers local farmers blah blah. Mum is retiring in the summer can't come quick enough for her

WeirdCatLady · 19/01/2015 10:13

I would love to be able to just buy organic, fully free range, ethically sourced etc etc etc but the truth is that I can't afford it. Our food bill is ridiculously expensive (long story) and I will shop around as much as I can. If that means buying from a mass producing farm rather than nice old Farmer Barleymow then so be it.

Thesnowmansnose · 19/01/2015 10:20

Aldi and Lidl are reported to pay only 56-59p for each four pints they sell. In contrast Tesco pay 73p and m&s 78p.

How does this work??? Why does anyone supply Aldi/Lidl etc, if it's possible to get nearly 50% more by supplying elsewhere?

Can anyone who really knows about these things confirm this?
What about corner shop milk?

How have things changed recently: when Aldi etc. cut the price to 79p, did the cut come completely from supplier payments, or were they just profiteering before that?

lurkeyishere · 19/01/2015 10:23

See I don't understand where they get these prices from? the same company bottles and delivers aldi and tescos milk and sainsburys too surely it's the company's fault of the prices not aldis

skolastica · 19/01/2015 10:29

As an idealistic 19 year old student, I spent my weekends WWOOFing (going to small organic farms to work at the weekend) and shopped as ethically as I could. I've carried that forward as much as possible... however, thirty years later the situation is even worse. The food supply chain is more adulterated and more dominated by big business. It won't change until there is a government policy to support sustainable farming/small farms in this country.

Pastamancer · 19/01/2015 10:31

You don't want to be supplying only one supermarket as you are solely reliant on them paying you. The more you supply, the more likely you are to get paid.

Supermarkets are funny with their ordering too. I used to work for somewhere that supplied Tesco with meat and Tesco would over order, realise this and then wriggle out of paying. They would check all the meat packs and if there was something slightly wrong with just one pack they would reject the whole delivery and refuse to pay. This could be the label sticker being slightly wonky or the little mat thing the meat sits on not being exactly in the middle. It's a very big risk to rely on just one customer when they play games like that.

livingzuid · 19/01/2015 10:37

Don't confuse landowner with farmer. The two are not necessarily the same. Certainly in my part of Scotland farmers are most certainly not the landowners but tenants. And struggling very much indeed.

I understood that supermarkets sold some lines at a loss and had a huge markup on others. It's all in all a terrible way to operate with most suppliers and consumers being shafted somewhere.

You can do your best to avoid them but then sometimes there is no choice. Down a main street in my home town there are no less than four express supermarkets, three of which are right next door to each other Confused

There is also this illusion of choice and cost effectiveness which is all rubbish. At the end of the day they all stock pretty much the same thing.

PlumpingUpPartridge · 19/01/2015 10:38

I think a mass move towards eating less meat with higher welfare standards (as in, actually improved welfare rather than lipservice improved welfare) would surely help the situation. There are already a few voices saying Eat Less Meat out there, and they are worth listening to for many reasons.

Gileswithachainsaw · 19/01/2015 10:38

So what do they do or not do to the meat that makes for such differences in prices?

obviously there are they expensive range better quality ones.

but assuming it's the same place supplying to a variety of shops.

what's the difference between the £3 bag of frozen chicken breast I'm Iceland and the £6 packet in tesco?

do they still inject the water into the meat.

SunnyBaudelaire · 19/01/2015 10:42

personally I no longer give a fuck about 'ethics' as the dairy industry has already been brought to its knees by the big supermarkets.
I also know a lot of farmers inc dairy farmers and could buy my milk directly from them, that is if I was willing and or able to drive to their farm and get it....