To think ethics in shopping count? (Aldi and Lidl)

[penguinpear]

There was an article in the Sunday Times this weekend about dairy farming. Over the past decade the number of dairy farmers has halved and more are going out of business all the time.

Aldi and Lidl are reported to pay only 56-59p for each four pints they sell. In contrast Tesco pay 73p and m&s 78p.

I am really upset by this, as I think we have a bleak future if people care only for their own pockets and not anyone else, including animals whose welfare will get worse if people have no interest in the supply chain.

I agree that ethics are important thing to consider, but I honestly believe it is just not possible to be a truly ethical shopper/consumer with today's systems.

exactly spork, what can you do? Until v recently I was all 'holier than thou' about eating British but it is virtually impossible to do that.

Yeah you are right spork unless we are killing cooking and eating ourselves then we really can't be truly ethical although we can try and do our bit iyswim.

Not everyone has the income or transport (or indeed stores near them) to shop at Waitrose darlings.

But you don't HAVE to eat meat, MiaowTheCat - or at least not as much of it. If demand reduced directly in response to concerns over ethics, then surely consumer pressure would force an improvement in treatment. Or at least, it might.

It's far easier to be veggie these days than it has been in the past and is also relatively cheap as long as you don't try to be Ottonlenghi

Overall, I don't think Aldi and Lidl are any worse than Tesco/Asda/Morrisons and even Waitrose aren't whiter than white.

Someone is losing out on their current 'half price event' which includes chickens for a couple of quid each and I'd be surprised if Waitrose were taking all the hit themselves.

I would like to shop ethically, but its just too hard work to do it as pretty much everything sold in every shop is exploiting someone somewhere.

And you have to get past all the marketing bollocks like the difference between outdoor bred and outdoor reared, and most supermarket 'free range' chickens meet a very low minimum standard, which is basically barn reared but with a little door somewhere that the chickens could in theory use, but most don't bother because they can't wade past thousands of other chickens to find it.

I would like to see fairtrade UK produced milk sold in every supermarket where the farmers receive a consistent and fair price but this is currently only available in a small north west chain (Booths).

Does anyone know how much the Co-op are currently paying for milk? The other problem is that the supermarkets pay inconsistent prices. Tesco used to pay the least, but now apparently pay the most, even more than some supermarkets that you would think are 'better' like Waitrose or Co-op (I've tried googling but can't find the current prices).

choclover displaying a crazy lack of knowledge about anything to do with the dairy industry [sceptical]

It's not just Aldi and Lidl milk, but all their other goods too.

Aldi and lidl sentiment goes in phases it used to be scuzzy then some people admitted to going then it was uber popular value for money now people are wondering if it is really all that good even if they do sell parma ham and german sausage least Asda shoppers are being left alone I suppose.

All supermarkets have till targets not just Aldi

'choclover displaying a crazy lack of knowledge about anything to do with the dairy industry [sceptical]'

are you saying the farmers I know don't drive new Land Rovers and go on exotic holidays? You know my friends better than me? Sure they complain about being poor.

I don't think Waitrose have till targets, DS was asked to slow down when he worked there, so people could keep up and he would have said about it if they did. M&S food certainly can't have as it always takes an age in there.

Whilst I sympathise with any impoverished farmers, it is the cows that are kept inside all year round that I am more concerned about. We've decided to buy our milk from Waitrose as they seem to have a slightly better record on using milk from cows that at lest see grass in summer.

it is true that the conditions of dairy cows in the superfarms of England are terrible. Modern farming is a bit like concentration camps for animals.

Another dairy farmer's daughter here. I shop in Aldi and Lidl but get my milk delivered straight from a local dairy.

All supermarkets are shit to their suppliers. I have been kidding myself hoping that Aldi and Lidl are cheaper not because they screw the suppliers harder but through lower margins and smaller product range. Really I know I'm kidding myself and should drop the supermarket shop entirely if it means that much to me.

Btw, only one local farmer had a big 4x4 and even then it was ancient. My DF drove across his fields in a tiny Fiat Punto van.

Cows were only inside in winter due to temperature. They were out in fields as soon as was practical.

farmers here do have 4x4s and might look 'rich' on paper but they are hand to mouth AFAIK

I have two friends, an engaged couple, who both work in Aldi although in different stores. They both love it. Genuinely!

Yes they are worked hard, but they are paid better than the other supermarkets locally who all pay NMW. They are financially far better off now than they were before they started, and their previous jobs were by no means crap NMW ones. I dont know about Lidl but Aldi jobs are like hens teeth. Whenever they have a vacancy they get hundreds of applications, because as I said, they pay well.

Every supermarket has targets, and dont pay as well as Aldi. Just look at the horror stories about Co op workers.

There is no ethics in dairy farming, you do understand that, right?
To get milk, a cow HAS to be inseminated. She doesn't magically just produce milk, same as neither you not I do unless we are nursing our child. To take her milk, meant for her baby, that baby has to be taken away from her at birth - otherwise the calf will consume it all. If male, he will be sent off to the slaughterhouse for veal. If female, she will be fattened up so she can join her mother in the dairy supply chain. We then steal the mother's milk. She is then impregnated again and again in her short and sorry life so she can continue lactating, and as soon as she is no longer valuable, (usually at about fie years old (a normal lifespan would be about 25 years) she is slaughtered, as she is not profitable. This cycle then continues, all so we can use the milk designed for HER babies.

Dairy milk isn't even good for us. There are better sources of calcium, and better alternatives to milk that are kinder to animals and the environment.

Watch www.cowspiracy.com/ for a clue.

I do not know a single farmer who zero grazes (keeps cows in all year round) all of the farmers I know keep cows in in the winter (November - March/April) as it is too cold and there is no grass growing outside at this time of year.

Dairy cows do not have enough body fat to deal with the colder temperature and are bred to produce milk from the food they eat rather than put weight on like beef cattle do.

www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/foodanddrinknews/9869584/Tesco-accused-of-monitoring-staff-with-electronic-armbands.html

*nor I ...

I think change needs to come from the top to make any difference at all really. It's the same old story - huge corporations exploiting whoever they can to make profits. It's unreasonable to try and shift the blame onto the ordinary person for not buying premium milk when most families in this country are struggling to pay their bills.

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2170377/Morrisons-imposes-new-second-targets-cut-till-queues.html