AIBU ... to STILL feel positively evangelical about electronic cigarettes? [thread 2]

[magimedi]

Here we go with thread two.

There is a great deal of information on Thread One about vaping :

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/1865547-to-feel-positively-evangelical-about-electronic-cigarettes?pg=1

I think that many of us have been able to give up smoking thanks to e-cigs & vaping & are all feeling the positive results & want to spread the message.

www.clivebates.com/?p=1602. This is interesting. It is a letter from the BMA and a suggested reply to them. It is more concerned with licensing e-cigs as medicines, a battle already won, but the 'reply' has a lot of facts which are relevant to the new EU proposals.

(I appear to be writing a Parliamentary Briefing at the moment!)

why is my clearomiser, cartomister, whats it called, filling up withsteam when I vape?

Jux, make sure to mention that people will die! I'm going to sit down and do my letters tomorrow.

waiki, are you sure you're sucking not blowing?

Onestep, good luck!

Clearos will often fill up with condensation. Shove a bit of tissue down the mouthpiece to clear it.

Plenty, I'm a bit scared about saying that. I am worried about bringing in the whole health benefits thing. Making health claims for them pushes in that direction, if we're not careful how we phrase it. I'm probably being over-cautious. I don't know much about the workings of Brussels.

I will bring it in though, as it is such an obvious benefit to users, and could significantly affect the burden on the NHS, as well as on (especially, small) businesses, who lose more money as we are always being told smokers take more sick days, lose time having fag breaks etc. Personally, I think smokers tend to be more sociable at work as they congregate in the smoking room - now outdoors - and chat together, without recourse to status. I always thought that was a better way to grease the wheels within a company and get people working together from all departments, regardless of hierarchy. There were many of us who would nip into the smoking room for a quick chat....

At the moment I am reading tons of stuff and making copious notes.

Maggie, the liquid arrived this morning! Thank you so much It is quite rich, so I mixed a couple of drops with apple, which has given my vape a really nice depth of flavour (as they say on Masterchef!). It's very nice, I could really get used to it! I'm going to try it with the grapefruit later, too.

Those EU idiots. I wonder what their real agenda is? Smokers contribute 10 billion to the UK economy via taxes. I suspect that there are huge fears of that figure dropping considerably. If they class ecigs/their paraphernalia as tobacco products, then they can slap huge taxes on them like they do with fags etc. If they restrict people to using the most expensive and least effective ecigs, then they're laughing.

Apologies if this has been mentioned, as I haven't RT whole FT, but does anyone else get mouth ulcers from vaping? I am a vaping evangelist and just love it, but as with everything I enjoy, I think I do it excessively , I don't have my first vape til the evening but then I almost constantly puff on it, and I like blowing it first then inhaling as this gives a really satisfying strong cloud of vapour, keeping the button pressed before I inhale and taking really deep drags. I just can't seem to do anything in moderation! I stopped smoking with inhalators some years ago and I became hopelessly addicted to them too and used to suffer awful hiccups and indigestion.

The ridiculous thing is, the liquid I use (LiKing Tobacco flavour) does not even contain nicotine so I don't know what I'm addicted to!

Does anyone else get mouth ulcers? Is this flavour likely to be the problem, and should I change to another? I wasn't sure if it was the vaping at first because I am also addicted to eating mints obsessively in bed (so many ishooos with oral fixation, obviously ) and I thought it might be these causing the ulcers, but Google suggests it is vaping causing the problem.

No mouth ulcers here. Are you run down? I get mouth ulcers if I've not been getting enough sleep/eating well.

And I'm a chain vaper.

I've become pretty much a chain vaper too, morning to night. I don't have mouth ulcers either. Which liquid are you using exactly?

Evening all

I've had a grotty cold so haven't been trying any of my daft flavours for a few days. Tonight I am trying the last of the chinese tobacco flavours which is Dekang Furong 16mg. It appears to be a substitution for LotusKing which I should have got in my fasttech order. I can't see Dekang Furong on the fasttech site but there is a Hangsen version here. Anyway, it's not as bad as some, but it has an odd note of wet washing on the exhale. I'll probably vape it at some point but it's going to the back of the box. I have some even dafter flavours to try next but I think some of them might be tank-crackers so I need to sort out my dripping atomiser which I'm a bit scared of

I'd love to know what flavours other people are trying and what they're like especially if they're really cheap

Riffy, it might be worth trying a VG based liquid. Joose Juice do liquid in a 30/70 mix and are cheap. You can get 100% VG but I'm not sure where from - worth a google.

Is it possible you are getting splashes of liquid in your mouth? That can cause ulcers, although it's unlikely I would have thought if you're using 0% nic. Make sure you're drinking plenty as vaping can be a bit dehydrating and multivitamins probably wouldn't hurt, whatever is causing it.

Have you recently stopped smoking Riffy? As in, cigarettes.

A side effect of quitting is mouth ulcers and bleeding gums.

So, the EU thing ...

I still haven't quite got my thoughts in order for my letter (been working stupid hours this week) and need to get a move on. What I think is happening is -

• MHRA wanted e-cigs regulated as medicines
• EU parliament said don't be silly, but some regulation is sensible
• it's now at the 'trilogue' stage where various unelected bodies discuss amendments
• a confidential proposal (the starting point for these discussions) has been leaked which is more restrictive than the original 'regulate as medicine' proposal
• the tobacco products directive meet again on 3rd December so it's wise to get correspondence in before then - NOT LONG!

For those who have no sense of urgency, this is what we stand to lose:

• Allows only single-use cartridges. No refillable units or tanks will be permitted and so the most effective devices will be removed from the market.

• Allows only flavours already approved for use in NRT. Hands control to pharma companies and against the view of the Parliament that recognised the importance of flavours.

• Limits nicotine density to 20mg/ml maximum with no justification, cutting out the stronger liquids that appeal more to heavily addicted smokers and those just switching

• Limits nicotine content of any container to just 10mg/unit – this is extremely low and arbitrary (see new paper on lethal doses for nicotine) and makes no sense

• Allows only devices that “deliver nicotine doses consistently and uniformly” – a completely unnecessary, severe and limiting technical challenge derived from medicines regulation – unlike with medicines, e-cigarette users control the dose.

• Bans advertising in press or printed publications (except trade), on radio, TV and other audiovisual services and the internet (through “information society services“) – this just protects incumbents (tobacco industry) and those who can rely on established distribution channels (tobacco industry)

• Bans e-cigarette sponsorships that have cross border impact (e.g. anything that might be shown on TV) – reduces competitiveness of disruptive technology

• Applies onerous and unnecessary warning, labelling and leaflet requirements that may be impractical and are disproportionate to risk deterring smokers who may wish to switch

• Bans cross border distance sales (internet etc) in clear contravention of the aims of the internal market

• Requires manufacturers to track so-called ‘adverse effects’ even though nicotine is widely used and understood

• Requires the submission of large quantities of seemingly irrelevant technical and commercial data despite recent high level commitments to reduce red tape

• Asserts (against the evidence) that e-cigarettes “simulate smoking behaviour and are increasingly used and marketed to young people and non-smokers” continuing the European tradition of smearing valuable harm-reduction option, notably snus, to the detriment of health in Europe.

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Basically, if this becomes law the only thing on the market will be somewhat shitter and more expensive than the worst cig-alike out there, oh and MNHQ would probably have to delete this thread for illegally promoting e cigs

This is the liquid I use.

I stopped smoking weeks before I started on the e-cigs. But I must have been run down, because today I have developed some horrible lurgy

I do get the liquid in my mouth as well sometimes, I'm not sure why this happens. Those look interesting Plenty, thanks!

Riffy I think stopping smoking is quite hard on the body. My hair has turned into a greasy mess and my skin is not great at the moment. I'm also getting bleeding gums from time to time. This is actually a good sign - it means the circulation to my gums has improved and my gum disease (which I knew I had) will be more treatable.

I've also got chapped lips but I think I get that most years once the heating goes on.

There's a link here to a petition against the proposed EU ban. This is a short-term petition, it's being handed in on Monday so if you want to sign, do it quick!

I'm not entirely sure of the rules on posting links to petitions, this might get deleted so I'll cross-post to the petitions board as well.

That looks like a good list, Plenty. I'll try and get a letter together too. Have signed the petition.

My lips are chapped. They always are at the change of season, but have been really bad. Seem to be getting a bit better now.

Have sent letter. Have signed petition.

Cantabile - I suffered really badly from chapped lips - always have done, n'owt to do with vaping .

I now use Lanolips (Boots sell it) It's expensive, but a small tube (£9) lasts me 18 months & I no longer have torn, bleeding lips.

www.lanolips.com/uk/

Thanks for that. I use aloe vera lipsalve (William Ransom & Son). It's fine and it works. My lips were far more chapped this time than they usually are, but you're probably right, nothing to do with vaping.

Totally silly but I have just discovered that I can do really good smoke rings when vaping! Could never do them with rollies.

Petition signed and shared on Twitter. Well over 7000 signaturesnow.

Cantabile I'm glad it arrived, hope you're enjoying it.

Plenty how's your cold? Mine really messed with my taste buds. I just couldn't find a liquid that I enjoyed. My FT order was just a new ego twist vv battery, another ego 900 (don't know why I bought that because after trying the vv I doubt I'll use it but it'll be good as a back up) and a few extra clearos. I've put another order in another battery and coil heads for the protank. I hope I've ordered the right ones.

I've signed the petition and another one on a vaping forum. The new vape shop in town looks ready to open, I'm thinking Monday. I'm very excited but also a little scared because i know i'll be popping in a lot It would be such a shame if it were to close down because of this stupid EU ban. It's had a total refit and it's looking great.

Not bad now, thanks Maggie. I was wishing I'd got round to buying some menthol though, or that 'choonz' liquid. I wonder if it really does taste like blackcurrant tunes?

I'm using medicated chapstick on my lips, it's working but I hate the feeling of it and DH keeps making juvenile jokes about the name.

Big thanks to all who have written letters and signed the petition so far I just looked and it's got 8300 signatures already!

I wish I understood more about EU process

Glad you're feeling a bit better now, Plenty.

Maggie, yes, the caramel's nice, a few drops added to another flavour gives a richness and roundness which the original flavour doesn't have. I can't find where I've put my grapefruit bottle, so I haven't tried it with that yet.

My friend and her dp have just bought Ego Cs after seeing mine, and I have given them the Twisted Java - they quite liked it! There was bound to be someone!