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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that there is no good in these kids future

173 replies

PatPig · 10/05/2013 13:31

Story here:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-22462545
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2322073/Smirk-teenage-thug-moments-killing-OAP-handbag-Pair-15-year-olds-including-father-jailed.html

Age 14 and 15 they killed an old lady to buy Nike shoes, they will serve 3 years in a young offenders institute, one boy has already fathered two children, both have convictions for assaulting their parents, there's violent burglary, kidnap and assault.

AIBU to think they will be let out in 3 years having spent several years in the company of similarly unpleasant teenagers to spend the foreseeable future committing more crime and causing more misery?

OP posts:
valiumredhead · 10/05/2013 13:35

What do you think should happen then if they don't go to prison?

valiumredhead · 10/05/2013 13:36

Or are you saying the sentence isn't long enough?

ReindeerBollocks · 10/05/2013 13:38

The sentence will be in line with Youth Offending Guidelines.

I don't think it is a very long time, given that they have taken a life, and my only hope for these boys is that they get access to real support services to enable them to reflect, and hopefully change their ways.

Wannabestepfordwife · 10/05/2013 13:39

Yanbu I hope that they can be rehabilitated but in IMO they are likely to come out more hardend then they went in

Fakebook · 10/05/2013 13:39

Apart from brainwashing them into being good Hmm, I don't know what else could be done to get thugs like these off the street.

TheSecondComing · 10/05/2013 13:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ophelia275 · 10/05/2013 13:41

I don't understand how people can get such a short sentence for killing someone. So depressing.

Original poster
PatPig · 10/05/2013 13:44

I think they should probably stay in there till they are about 30. I just can't see 15-year-old scumbags coming out at 18, not as scumbags. The list of past crimes seems pretty long too.

Horrible.

OP posts:
Pozzled · 10/05/2013 13:44

I think that there can't have been much good in those kids' pasts, either.

I don't believe children are born evil. It's sickening to think that anyone can learn to have such a complete lack of respect for human life.

timidviper · 10/05/2013 13:53

It is sickening to think there are parts of society where lack of respect for all sorts of things is the norm. Unfortunately I don't think any government will ever want to tackle problems with the so-called underclass because of the politically correct backlash so it will just continue

Dawndonna · 10/05/2013 13:57

They were sentenced to six years for the manslaughter, four years for the robbery of Mrs Castle and three years for the robbery of Rosé Mohammed, all to run concurrently.

So, not three years.
The three years will be served in a young offenders institution, after which it is likely that the offenders will be sent to a 'normal' prison.

saulaboutme · 10/05/2013 13:58

I read about this today and it sickens me the justice system in this country! Her daughter made a statement saying the sentence doesn't fit the crime. I really don't understand it.
Very rarely you hear of a fitting sentence for crimes. How can loved ones ever feel and truly say "Justice has been done" in this country?

BettySwollocksandaCrustyRack · 10/05/2013 14:01

3 years is ridiculous - they will come out with more knowledge on crime than they went in with.

They are scumbags at 15, they will be scumbags at 18 and probably for the rest of their lives.

I do believe some people are born evil with their brains wired differently and I don't believe they would ever change. Lots of people come from shitty backgrounds etc etc - we do all however, know right from wrong.

Original poster
PatPig · 10/05/2013 14:02

Dawndonna, that is in fact three years:

www.london24.com/news/crime/boys_15_detained_for_six_years_for_killing_a_partially_sighted_pensioner_1_2187696

"Bartlett, of Northolt, west London, and Hoque, of Mile End, east London, were told they would have extended licence periods of four years after serving half their sentences."

In other words after three years they will be released from prison. For the next four years they will be subject to recall to theoretically serve the remainder of their sentence, if they get caught and convicted of something else.

OP posts:
ohbuggerhelp · 10/05/2013 14:12

With DNA testing and providing there is absolute certainty of guilt, as an atheist I see no reason whatsoever not to re introduce the death penalty for pondscum like this.

I do object to my taxes going on feeding and housing them.

FasterStronger · 10/05/2013 14:19

what was these children's home lives like to make them behave in such a way?

i expect if we knew their parents, their behaviour would make much more sense.

Dawndonna · 10/05/2013 14:24

interesting reading
I'm sure branding them scumbags really helps.
Hmm

BettySwollocksandaCrustyRack · 10/05/2013 14:27

I'm sure branding them scumbags really helps

What else would you call them then? I think calling them scumbags is actually quite tame to be honest.

Yeah, let's just send them off to live in the lap of luxury and in 3 years time they will be totally reformed. Hmm

Dawndonna · 10/05/2013 14:27

Oh, by the way ohbugger dna testing is not 100% accurate. I am certainly not willing to take that risk.

Dawndonna · 10/05/2013 14:30

Oh do grow up, Betty Nobody is that much of a bleeding heart fucking liberal. They're kids. They did wrong, outrageously so. They probably didn't stand a chance at a decent life before they were born, but nasty knee jerk twats will never give them a chance. Some people serve their time and go on to live perfectly respectable, safe lives. Both John Mc Vicar and Erwin James spring to mind. There are probably many others you have never heard of, but closed minds don't listen, don't read and believe that the only way is to meet violence with further violence, be it verbal or physical.

BettySwollocksandaCrustyRack · 10/05/2013 14:34

Dawn - I don't need to be told to grow up thanks jut because I don't agree with you on this. They are teenagers, they are old enough to know you don't go round murdering old ladies no matter how shitty their upbringing was. I don't believe violence should meet violence and I don't believe in capital punishment (purely incase they get it wrong) but I also don't believe we should be mollycoddling them and letting them live in luxury whilst they "pay" for their sins.

ohbuggerhelp · 10/05/2013 14:36

I couldn't give a damn how shit their lives have been.
If it had been my old mum they'd killed I'd have seen to them myself.

Prison's too good for them.

FasterStronger · 10/05/2013 14:36

I don't think they should live in luxury either - but they need a chance. and I don't think they have ever had one.

how do you think their parents treated them when they were 5 yo to be this heartless?

Dawndonna · 10/05/2013 14:38

Betty I apologise, I thought you were part of the 'hang 'em high' brigade. Sorry.
It is interesting that the Norwegian model has such a low reoffending rate though.

ohbugger Apart from the fact that if it had been my old mum I'd have been bloody grateful, they did not set out with the intent to murder an old lady. The fact is they did, it was wrong, but it was unintentional. Prison is not too good for anybody.

boschy · 10/05/2013 14:40

oh its such a tough one. Clearly they have had horrible lives in order to behave like this... but they just cant be allowed to continue to do it, can they?

I was at a talk recently about Children in Care in education, and what came through was just how tough it is for these kids. Given the right intervention, the right help, good pastoral support at school etc etc they can make it.

But on the other hand, if some little shite murdered my 82 yo mum I would be at the head of the lynch mob and dont believe I would feel very forgiving.