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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that there is no good in these kids future

173 replies

PatPig · 10/05/2013 13:31

Story here:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-22462545
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2322073/Smirk-teenage-thug-moments-killing-OAP-handbag-Pair-15-year-olds-including-father-jailed.html

Age 14 and 15 they killed an old lady to buy Nike shoes, they will serve 3 years in a young offenders institute, one boy has already fathered two children, both have convictions for assaulting their parents, there's violent burglary, kidnap and assault.

AIBU to think they will be let out in 3 years having spent several years in the company of similarly unpleasant teenagers to spend the foreseeable future committing more crime and causing more misery?

OP posts:
ohbuggerhelp · 10/05/2013 18:14

Quite, Goal and the tightening up of a generous benefits system should help too.

Dawndonna · 10/05/2013 18:18

Quite, Goal and the tightening up of a generous benefits system should help too.

Oh good grief. I refer you to my earlier comments regarding eyes and ears being shut for the purposes of sitting in judgement.
The two are unconnected. There have been vile and violent murders carried out by the wealthy, by the middle classes, by the working classes. It isn't just the feckless, benefit scrounging scum that are guilty, as you would have it.

ohbuggerhelp · 10/05/2013 18:19

dawndonna no of course, far better for unloved and unwanted children to be born into lives of abuse and neglect and for them to go on right ahead and repeat the process. Doesn't the fact that crime went down with legal abortion tell you that these children were never wanted in the first place??

ohbuggerhelp · 10/05/2013 18:23

dawndonna check your stats. The vast majority of violent, repeated crime is by the lowest social group. Prisons are full of ill educated, unemployed males fathering children randomly. They are full of problem people costing the state millions to house, feed, catch, process and repeatedly incarcerate. Don't be disingenuous.

Dawndonna · 10/05/2013 18:28

A natural assumption that those on benefits are those that are unloved and unwanted.
I do not work ohbugger. I look after my disabled dh. I do not claim benefits either. I do not need to. My mother, as I pointed out earlier is an abusive, narcissist. She is the granddaughter of a lord and very wealthy. Trust me dear, abuse crosses all barriers, including financial and the benefits cap will do absolutely nothing to stop this. As I said, there have been violent murders by the very wealthy too. Jeremy Bamber is such an example.
Crime went down with legal abortion because abortion became legal, therefore the crime of abortion no longer existed. Oh, and legal abortion still exists here, so if they were originally unwanted, then something could have been done.

Dawndonna · 10/05/2013 18:32

Oh, and ohbugger I don't need to be disingenuous, I have stated, very clearly how the problem of unemployed males who have never been given a valid opportunity to access education or any other validation can be resolved. In fact it's even one that would cost the country less, long term. Less cost, fewer crimes, what more could one want.

ohbuggerhelp · 10/05/2013 18:36

valid opportunity to access education

What, like it being free and compulsory? Hmm

How about we blame the scum themselves not everyone else, huh?

Dawndonna · 10/05/2013 18:42

Listen sweetie, it isn't working, is it. I'm not trying to make you change your mind, just trying to get you to see that it isn't anything to do with being skint, or being on benefits, there lies the argument of false cause.
Futile.

ohbuggerhelp · 10/05/2013 18:44

Please don't try to patronise me by calling me sweetie . I worked for years in prisons and YOI and PRU's so I know damn well what I'm talking about.

I just don't agree with a word you've uttered, is all.

FreudiansSlipper · 10/05/2013 18:45

uhbuggerhelp the abortion/lower crime rate stats did not take other factors in great details like investment in poor areas, better education in poor areas, more equality in poor areas, women having better access to birth control, women having careers, more people attening college

and the 3 strikes law has seen many crimminals in prison on long sentences this has made a difference too. it is terrible and shameful that there are more 19 year old black males in prison than in college

ohbuggerhelp · 10/05/2013 18:46

And you can't have it both ways. either these scum are scum because they come form a horrid, deprived background or background has nowt to do with it in which case why even try to rehabilitate?

ohbuggerhelp · 10/05/2013 18:47

it is terrible and shameful that there are more 19 year old black males in prison than in college.

It is. But why is that?

Dawndonna · 10/05/2013 18:47

Jesus, that is truly fucking scary, ohbugger and to be honest, your attitude would go a long way to explaining what's wrong with the system as it stands.
Nuff said.

ohbuggerhelp · 10/05/2013 18:48

And bleeding heart lentil knitters like you are far more scary and why scum like this are let out to slaughter some other poor bastard after a few years.

BiteTheTopsOffIcedGems · 10/05/2013 18:48

What are people's opinions on children that have a shit upbringing and never commit crime?
My dad in law was left by his mother, had an abusive father, left school at thirteen and had no money. He is a lovely man and has never even stolen penny sweets from a shop.
What about middle class children that commit terrible crimes? What is their excuse? In my local area recently two teenagers violently attacked another person, they were from 'nice families'

ohbuggerhelp · 10/05/2013 18:54

oh god bite don't ask that! Dawndonna won't be able to blame everyone and his dog except the offender!

andubelievedthat · 10/05/2013 18:57

Interesting ,thing is ,these people cannot be put to death nor banged up for life so....anyone ? Daily Fail readers who will no doubt claim they don't read said saddo rag need not reply,and I hate lentils and cannot basket weave ,but do live in a total shithole of a housing scheme,so that's my credentials sorted then.>no death no jail for life and ! no sterilisation on Govt. orders either ,so ,what? these "scumbags" are still here.

Spero · 10/05/2013 19:01

How do you access the 'free and compulsory' education if you are hungry, beaten down, your very brain changed by years of abuse and mistreatment?

Do some of you really not see the difference between a 'tough' upbringing and and no upbringing at all?

These boys don't care about what they did, I bet they don't give a shot. But I also bet a lot of money they weren't born, they were made.

So froth all you want about hanging and prisons and scum. Thousands of these children are being conceived right now. Cutting benefits will not stop it.

FreudiansSlipper · 10/05/2013 19:01

why is that

again a number of factors, poverty, lack of opportunity, racism within the judicial system, desire to be a criminal, lack of respect for self and others, expectations from others, drug addiction, lack of education, lack of secure upbringing

whatever the reasons it is not going to change in the long run if the core problems are ignored

Goal · 10/05/2013 19:06

abortion link

Have a read dawndonna it has naff all to do with the fact abortion is no longer bing counted as a crime!

Also who said anything about the poor. Preventing violent criminals from having further children has nothing to do with money or class however hard you try to twist it.

infamouspoo · 10/05/2013 19:24

I'm perplexed as to how cutting 'generous' benefits will solve crime. Looking pre-war we had the same problems.

AmberLeaf · 10/05/2013 19:52

The article doesnt say the background of the two boys, so I suppose we are assuming they have not had a nice upbringing, but we could be wrong couldnt we?

Well it mentions one of them attacking his foster father, so at least one was in LA care.

That tells you something at least about his background.

AmberLeaf · 10/05/2013 19:56

Oh god yes, the racist comments at the bottom of the article.

You would think a white person never committed a crime.

Dawndonna · 10/05/2013 20:07

Have a read dawndonna it has naff all to do with the fact abortion is no longer bing counted as a crime!

Except Lott and Whitley disproved the Donohue and Levitt theories in 2001. Goal

JakeBullet · 10/05/2013 20:25

I am on benefits.....I have no desire to attack others
I had a neglected upbringing.....I have no desire to attack others

Why? Because ONE parent mitigated the crappy circumstances by beig available, loving and helpful to me.

I would bet neither of these teenagers had that.

Still doesn't make what they did right or excuse it but as I said up thread, unless as a society we start taking notice of neglected children (and they come from ALL walks of life) we will continue to see such crimes.

....and btw, we don't "take notice" or help children in these families by cutting benefits and making their already shit lives harder. We should be getting in there early, making sure parents KNOW the importance of affection in growing the infant brain (particularly the frontal lobes which regulate emotion and impulse control) and supporting them to parent properly. We might see less f this kind of thing in the future then..