Should the UK return to EU free movement?

[EEexpat]

Advantages and disadvantages?

What do you think OP?

Or is this just homework for us?

@RedSpotTeaPot

Initial thoughts are:

Advantages

Easier to live and work in the EU.

Those who bought second homes in the EU will not be restricted by the Schengen 90/180 guidelines. This would benefit France and Spain too.

Disadvantages

Free movement is a two way street. So, it would allow cheaper labour in from the less developed EU countries.

Trades people seem to think they are better off now they are not being undercut since free movement ended.

I am sure others can add more.

I think the UK is a bigger magnet and will attract more people than other countries because almost every young person wants to improve their English to expand their professional opportunities. Most Brits don't speak enough of any second language to be employable overseas, unless in an English-speaking environment.

Advantages
Competition amongst trades people might reduce prices for consumers.

It would really, really piss Nigel Farage off.

This is an excellent positive - but I never voted to leave in the first place and I curse that odious little twat every time I'm stuck in the non-Schengen queue.

Trades are happy because we are really short of trades people

Yes, if the EU will allow us to re-join, having inflicted a devastating blow to them, as well as to ourselves.

Realistically, I think we should look at what Mark Carney is suggesting for Canada, and join an* *"Alliance for the Future" with the EU to deepen economic, strategic, and institutional ties without seeking full membership.

Given that we will never be able to re-join the EU on the same beneficial terms we had before, and given our geography, culture, and language, maybe this would suit us better?

Personally, I would prefer full membership but I think think that given everything that has happened, a separate alliance Canada and others could work out well. And it would help with the USA issue.

I only hope Carney will let us join given what he knows about our public sector net debt which has surpassed £3.0 trillion for the first time, representing roughly 94.5 % of UK GDP. We have only ever seen it that low during the early sixties when we were still suffering from the effects of the Second World War. So that needs to be considered too when we attempt to re-join anything as it doesn’t make our case particularly appealing to some.

There will be more immigration from places like Poland, Albania etc. There will be less immigration from India, Pakistan etc.

It just depends whether you prefer white or brown immigrants.

Given the standard of English teaching and spoken English in much of the EU, I really don't think language learning is going to be the main driver.

By underpaying people and having more people needing to be subsidised my universal credit? We should be paying people more not less.

No. Because it returns immigration to a status of literally being out of control.

Once free movement is allowed, there is no control the government can apply to people coming here from the EU.

That would be fine if the government was good at managing the people coming in. But it doesn't.

By managing I refer to things like housing provision, welfare provision, housing provision, education and jobs, energy, water, sewage. I could go on.

Successive goverments are crap at managing all these things to the betterment of people who currently live here.

So the last thing we need is further numbers of people coming in, essentially out of control, that the government will not adequately plan for.

You can't compare Poland and Albania. Polish citizens have been going back to Poland because it's economy is doing so well. Albania is still very poor. However, it is not in the EU.

Fair point - I meant Romania not Albania.

You are right about Poland, the standard of living there is now on a par with the UK.

Why Is everyone only talking about the free movement of people and not goods?

So many British SMEs have been destroyed by Brexit bc it became too costly to export.

We are not a large island and our population is high. We cannot already adequately house, provide health care for, rental care, education etc. for people who already live here. I have a home in France and I can already stay in that house for 3 months at a time eg 6 months in total within a calender year, if I wish to. I don't see that as a problem. A lot of people in EU if allowed free entry would apply for ILR once they qualified. I don't see so many UK citizens going into EU. It would be better if there was a balance in place so 1000 in from EU 1000 out from UK.

@pointythings

Given the standard of English teaching and spoken English in much of the EU, I really don't think language learning is going to be the main driver.

I agree. I have worked in, Bulgaria, France, Germany and the Netherlands and English is well spoken and written by native of those countries.

Even less developed countries like, Philippines, Thailand and Vietnam are good at English.

@Erin1975

Didn’t the Polish government offer tax concessions/incentives for citizens to return to Poland?

Youth unemployment is 30 per cent in Rumania and their minimum wage is 4 quid an hour. They will flock here.

I'd love to have it back! Here in the Channel Islands it's horribly affected what was one of our easiest travel routes and we didn't even get a vote in a referendum!

It's hard. I voted to stay in the EU so my instinctive response is yes. We threw the baby out with the bathwater.

However, we have at least a million unemployed young people and another million over 50s (and then there are the ones inbetween). People can go on about how "British" people won't do those jobs but from my experience, they can't get them. I can see that we need people from overseas to do care work but why to work on the railways or empty the bins or work in libraries? I feel like people are being excluded from work, so adding to that by importing even more people doesn't seem very sensible.

But, it works both ways, so maybe some of the unemployed Brits could find work abroad that they can't do currently unless they have a second EU passport.

As a minimum, I wish they'd get on with the youth mobility scheme, and they could exempt us from the nonsense EES system (I have no issue with ETIAS) and allow our musicians to work there.

Interesting - what's that - do you mean the ferry to St Malo? I thought there was a special scheme for French people visiting the Channel Islands.

It’s still the case it’s easier to move here to work with English at that level than it is in the other direction.

Especially for some work.

Well we have a much better minimum wage but our youth unemployment rate is dire as well. At least 16% and they're the ones the government know about. There are a lot claiming PIP and a lot just living off their parents.

I think it's because the EU said that to have one, you had to have the other.

But I think they might be a little more flexible now, given Putin and Trump's antics.

I agree. I didn’t vote leave but there’s a way forward without FoM.

Why do we need people from overseas to do care work if we have high unemployment here ?

Probably because the people who are here can have a better life on benefits than they can doing the care work.

So is the solution :

i) Import an underclass that is willing to do the care work. These people can live ten to a house, be paid wages that barely allow them to survive, while people here continue to scrape by on benefits ?

ii) Make it so that care work actually pays a decent wage and has decent prospects, so people are willing to go into those jobs ?

?

Isn't it the job of the Labour party to make the lives of the working class/lower earners better ?

Or is it to allow them to scrape a living indefinitely on the dole while they import others to do their job ?