Should the UK return to EU free movement?

[EEexpat]

Advantages and disadvantages?

I would not be in favour of freedom of movement as it was before. As said in this thread and others in the past, it only works if the countries involved have similar standards of living and earnings.

This is where the EU’s rapid expansion in to Eastern Europe was a mistakes. As soon as they saw what they could earn in Western Europe, the exodus was huge.

Bad for Western Europe as they were flooded with cheap labour which had the following knock on effects:

Locals were displaced by cheap labour

Employers and governments lost the incentive to invest in training

The Eastern European countries lost their younger, more educated and skilled workers to Western Europe

For some reason, governments didn’t realise the following:

Cheap labour = reduced tax take.

To balance the books, governments then have the choices of:

Increase taxes, or
Borrow more, or
Cut spending.

None of which are helpful.

@EEexpat ,

‘This is where the EU’s rapid expansion in to Eastern Europe was a mistakes. As soon as they saw what they could earn in Western Europe, the exodus was huge.
Bad for Western Europe as they were flooded with cheap labour which had the following knock on effects:

Locals were displaced by cheap labour’

I agree with you that was the case. However freedom of movement has kind of done its jobs and the economies of Eastern and Western Europe have significantly converged.

On a PPP basis, Poland’s GDP is not far off the UK’s, so there would be little incentive to emigrate for work for that reason.

@Newbutoldfather

However freedom of movement has kind of done its jobs and the economies of Eastern and Western Europe have significantly converged.

How much of the convergence is due to the Western European countries having very low growth in recent years? Are there not other poor Eastern European countries who want to join the EU? If their application was successful, would that not cause another flood of cheap labour from Eastern Europe to Western Europe?

Poland began to experience a brain drain. Hence, the Polish government if offering tax incentives for Poles who left to return.

The problem is it won't stop where it is now.

The EU is essentially an expansionist organisation. It needs to be in order to find markets for the goods from the core. Germany is in trouble at the moment. It's manufacturing sector needs new markets to expand into because the current EU ones are tapped out.

So really the expansion of the EU east is kind of inevitable. Currently that is Turkey and Ukraine which have large numbers of people and big markets. When the EU expands into these areas the same issues with free movement that occurred originally will occur all over again.

Then it will move onto the next lot of countries to absorb. Maybe it will go to the south east (Georgia), or even possibly North Africa, although I see that being a long time away.

Germany has issues mainly due to Trumps tariffs and Ukraine where they were heavily invested- members and markets are a very different thing -the EU already have good trading deals in most places and Germany would be almost guaranteed to veto Turkey due to the sheer amount that would possibly go to Germany due to family connections - I can’t see why anyone in the EU would rush for that , when they can already trade there quite easily. It’s simply not the same situation as the agreement negotiated with Canada atall -

I don't see much correlation between Trump taking power and German GDP tanking. In fact the opposite.

I forgot about Canada.

I don't share your view regarding Turkey joining the EU.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potential_accession_of_Turkey_to_the_European_Union

There are lots of lovely people in the EU/EEA who I would welcome into the UK. But it shouldn't be complicated free and unrestricted whatsoever. Like at all.

There are lots of people who have EU passports who I wouldn't want to welcome into the UK. Many EU nations have made horrendous decisions regarding immigration policy and naturalisation. Look at all the rioting and looting in France. Do you want them to have a free right to come and live here? The same way I don't think the french should have to have unscrupulous Brits inflicted upon them.

If you really love the EU so much apply for a visa and go.

Also we have benefited from Brexit in many ways. Do you want to force ALL UK businesses to follow burdensome EU regulations

Really? How? Those 'burdensome ' regulations give access to more than just EU markets. Or can you give some examples where EU standards in and of themselves are a barrier to selling to somewhere outside the EU?

No Siri AI, no iPhone mirroring, meta smart glasses restricted, copilot stripped of some features, self-driving such as waymo further away etc. horrible burdensome EU regs. We actually have access to features and things in the UK that you can't get in the EU.

I really wish it would.

My sector is struggling to hire people.

We having an age population and need more young people paying tax.

I personally would like freedom to
travel in Europe when I retire

Apply for a visa.

Except that we want our young people to be able to train for the trades and make a good living, now that university is too expensive.

If you give those future jobs away, what will they do then? You can't have it both ways.

Thank you for supporting my case.

The requirement for visas and other barriers to travel is exactly why I want freedom of movement movement back n

I can use Claude at work and it's been super helpful. You actually can't use Claude in copilot in the EU. How stupid. So many features are restricted and not functioning due to cumbersome EU laws.

VCs and tech firms are more shifting to London now! There's been a great flow of investment in! Long may it continue.

Well you won't be getting it back. So in that time, you can fill out a form. The rest of the world has to do this. You're not any special or better than anyone else.

You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong - as the net contributing EU states are gradually realising.

Yes absolutely. Huge advantage to business, stupid customs red tape and cost in moving goods around Europe. The sooner we have free movement of people and goods again the better.

….

Again thank you supporting my case and bolstering my argument. 🥰

Politics change all the time - no one can state anything with certainty. Just opinions.

Our young people will once again have a huge range of countries they can easily work or study in and will not have that opportunity denied to them by a nasty little old racist man.

For the Brexiteers, I'll make you some little stamps for your passport personally (if you have one) and you can stamp away to your heart's delight. I'll even draft you some customs forms for goods if it makes you feel better.

Undoubtedly yes, we should return to free movement and access to the single market. The economy is stagnant and needs a boost.

So you're too lazy to fill out paperwork to move to a country you really want to?

. We'd have to give this all up then. All our tech boom and VC investment coming in.