Dad has "told fibs" to be allowed home from hospital

[Doubleknow]

He's been in for 10 days after a hip replacement. He's doing OK, but the recovery isn't happening as quickly as he expected. (He's 85).

I've visited most days, but never spoken to a doctor or OT, both he and Mum have full capacity, so all the important conversations have been with them.

He's desperate to come home, but still very frail and not very mobile.

They live in a big house with no downstairs bathroom or bedroom. (I know, but as I said full capacity).

He has "fibbed", his words, to be allowed to come home. He's told them he has a bed downstairs (he means the sofa) and downstairs bathroom (there is a small downstairs loo) and, I strongly suspect, that he has a wonderful daughter nearby who will be at his beck and call!

Mum is elderly and disabled herself, but very stoic and will get on with doing what needs doing, which would include caring for him and the house with only one working leg. They are both determined not to have outside help. Neither has had a bath or shower in months, although they are very particular about being clean, and they don't seem unwashed, so must be doing a decent job.

I will do bits, but I can't offer "care" and in any case they're not expecting that, they just want the hospital to believe it so that he's "allowed" to come home.

I think I just have to leave it and let them struggle, as is their choice, but it seems all wrong.

Are there other options?

OP I learnt the hard way that whatever I did to help, getting care help, cooking freezer food etc etc, made zero difference in the end because my father and stepmother still ended up in one room downstairs, washing in the kitchen sink. Until they had to accept a home. I couldn't change their health decline downwards or refusal mindset and so it took its toll on me. I told my mother and stepfather I was not going to do anything like as much, after going through some rejected forward planning ideas to avoid similar. And here I am now 3 years later trying to support their inevitable move from a 3 story house in a village with no shops,to a flat while they are frail. I am doing what I can without stopping my life, realising it makes little different to the outcome or journey there for them - only to me and my emotions.

They don’t want x, y, or z.

But would be perfectly happy to see their daughter run ragged from providing all these services.

I sympathise, having been the daughter that has dealt with recovery of eye ops and 2 full knee replacements.
Being in hospital is awful, I couldn't stand it and would want to get home.
Your father is like mine and you can't make him spend his own money. He will have to live with the consequences of his choices, and unfortunately so does your mother. It's good that there is a downstairs loo so big tick for that.
If he won't have a bed then persuade him to get an electric recliner armchair. My sister sorted one for my Dad and he loves it. You can pick them up second hand easily, we got one for around £100, they can be £1000 new. Eventually he should be able to manage the stairs.
If neither of them smell - don't worry about it. My dad has a shower maybe once a week. He is old fashioned and washes at the sink daily.
I work in care and a lot of home carers are lovely and a lot are not. I'm holding out as long as possible as my Dad would hate it.

An elderly relative on DH’s side ‘fibbed’ after getting hospital discharge saying all her adult DC would be able to care for her so didn’t need carers. Hadn’t asked said adult DC who all worked FT at the time. They couldn’t understand why a care package hadn’t been offered. Next time relative went into hospital they wised up and sat with relative and discharge team and said there needed to be care package in place before discharge happened

This was PIL. The money (over £1million) was for the children when they died. Not adaptations or new bathrooms that could help them, you know, keep safe and clean. How naive.
FIL died first after a series of crises involving SIL hauling him naked out the bath. MIL is now in care watching her careful stockpile drain away at over £5k a month.
The whole thing has left a very poor legacy.
Facilitate paid help but otherwise stay away.

So many of thst generation are like this (not all thankfully my mum was much more sensible), but my in laws arrrgh!! Fil lied through his teeth to Doctors to cover up Mil's dementia, he refused to allow a social worker in to assess the situation, all sorts of mayhem ensued that could have been prevented. Eventually it was an absolute safeguarding crisis and we managed to get Mil into a home - but not before she had been in several very dangerous situations. Fil has never shown any remorse.

Just seen your earlier post - you could do what my sister did and just turn up with them? As I work in care I often buy things I think I may need early on, I got a wheelchair when I saw one at a good price that looked brand new, when we took my dad on holiday it was a God-send. One of those litter picker pincer things is very handy too, and a riser cushion.

Absolutely.We had to make the decision to get rid of the bath and put in a full-length walk-in shower,with appropriate railings,supports and seating for DH.It doesn't look in the least like something out of a geriatric setting.It's really sleek and modern in design and we're really pleased with it.

I get you are worried. I was worried too and I daydreamed too - like wouldn't it be great if somebody else cared and cared so well that I could have a relatively care-free life? Like amazing hospitals, amazing social support system via GP, and committed, care-provision-driven hired help. Naaah. Does not work like that. In fact, does not work at all. Elder abuse in posh care homes, elder indifference at GPs, elder 'I don't give fuck' nurses in hospitals. Nobody will give a shit about them the way you do. Nobody.

Good for him....he's better off at home.
Can you make up a nice bed for him downstairs?

They can hand wash...that generation grew up on it! So for them it's probably normal.
I'd just ask them what can you do to help?
Wishing him a speedy recovery.

The refusal to get rid of stuff, despite health issues sounds like my mother.

I have mentioned this before - Rug gate!

She bought a rug for the lounge but my dad, who has a lot of issues, tripped up on it a couple of times and only missed smashing his head open by luck. She didnt want to get rid of it as "It was very expensive!". In the end I lost my rag a bit and said "Well now we know how much dad is worth to you....not as much as a rug!". That worked. She moved it but it is now rolled up under the sofa as she will not consider getting rid of it completely, or even put it in the attic. I really do think that in her head she would be throwing/giving away cash if she got rid of it. She is very tight with money. Dad at least isnt like that.

There isnt much you can do if they both have that mindset, but just sending my sympathy.

What he needs isn’t an extended hospital stay but convalescent care, with daily physio and OT. No idea where you are, but where I am the community physio team rang 8 months after my fil had been discharged. That’s the reality of the waiting lists.

The chances of him being able to regain his independence will be exponentially better if he gets physio. My df got four weeks of convalescent care because my dm had the resolute good sense to ignore his whinging and tell the discharge team in no uncertain terms that she couldn’t possibly take him home. By the time he came home he had got into an exercise routine, walked every day and had conquered the stairs two weeks later to reclaim his own bed. He eventually died up there but not for another 15 years.

Pils, couldn’t be told, and knew best and pushed for early discharge, and Fil is 13 months on, still limping, needs a stick some days and is developing spinal issues from the pressure now.

I know I’m being unkind but this nonsense makes my blood boil. They see these situations unfolding among their friends and still insist on being pig headed. Sending you strength and patience op!

If this was a planned hip replacement then he will have been given pre op information and will be expected to have made his home suitable and arrange any help he’s likely to need in the short term BEFORE going in for surgery.
If he had a fall and it’s due to a fracture then that’s different as he won’t have had the pre op information

Time for tough love needed .
try telling them you will support their lies if they accept either adaptations and/or home help- no discussions

As someone who works in a care home, there might not be much you can do. It’s so hard for some older people to admit that they aren’t as fit as they ever were or that they need help or mobility aids of any sort. They know they do, of course, but if they don’t admit it they don’t have to feel it quite so much.

I do remember a particularly stubborn man whose daughter told him that a few house improvements would “keep him out of the home” for longer and that did it. He got to go home and is still there a few years on, because his house is livable for the level of assistance he needs.

I am biased as I am 79 but as you say your dad has full capacity it is his decision. (My wife has been in hospital a few times recently and hated it.) Home might not be perfect but it is his home and he would feel happier there.

I wish I knew this before the work to turn our downstairs loo into an accessible shower room started just over a week ago 😞 I will look into the council tax reduction though, thank you to the poster who mentioned that.

@Doubleknow when my late fil was discharged from hospital after a hip operation we had to make it very clear we were not his carers and they would have to send ots or other to look after him. Fil however felt he could do everything so sent them away. My dh had lots of phone calls & then face to face meetings at fil house before they would listen, and when they finally agreed fil nearly blew it and said he didn't need their help.

I also second the approach of absolutely losing your shit at them. I had to have a no holds barred show down with my DM, she had the grace to apologise after and admit I had a point.

She still does her own thing but it's never been as bad as it was before the argument. Can see similar is brewing with MIL, we've already had that 'the money is for the children/grandchildren' and had to bluntly point out they would all rather she didn't hasten her own death to get it.

Not RTFT because supposed to be working... but @Doubleknow are you aware of walk-in baths? I have only very recently found out they were a thing because my dad had his bath/shower adapted so he could walk into it rather than stepping in over the side of the bath. There are some examples on here: https://www.assistivebathing.co.uk/walk-in-baths/ (not a recommendation - I don't know who my dad used though it could be these people). It wasn't cheap but they did a beautiful job and it was definitely money well spent. It has been much easier for my dad to keep himself properly clean since he had this installed and he has been really pleased to have it.

My PILs had handrails installed in their house for stairs and bathrooms. The handrails are quite discrete but very helpful.

As PPs have said - you can sell this as enabling your parents to stay in their home for longer. Indeed, these adaptations will almost certainly help them to do so. My FIL has sadly now died but my MIL is in her early 90s and still going strong in the family home.

But is he safest there?

They need carers - probably 4x a day/evening
I got my Mum and Dad to accept by saying very bluntly if not you’ll have to go into a Home - sounds a bit cruel and I was insistent, but it had to be done.
They loved their carers btw!
Edited to add - we had help from social services or local council ( can’t remember which) to add rails/bed rails etc for the house/bathroom/kitchen etc plus they both had alarms on neck or wrist that alerted me if they fell or whatever. Walk in showers/bath invaluable. Meals that go in microwave.

Can you have a chat with someone at the hospital they respect? A strict senior nurse or someone? I think he needs to realise that a sofa to sleep on will likely mean a dislocated hip and back to hospital, likewise not getting the riser chairs. It's really tough, I find with my parents if someone else tells them, it goes down much better! Could you offer to find a storage unit to appropriately store furniture "temporarily" whilst they put a proper OT approved bed and chair for him in the downstairs? Realistically they might need to have something bad occur before they really discover their age and situation. To be fair, it does sound like they're managing washing OK, if they don't smell etc, so the downstairs loo will enable him to wash the way he normally does. I just think sleeping and sitting on a normal sofa would be the priority to get them to focus on!

How’s your poor sil?

As long as they are managing and your dad looks after his operation site, doesn't try to do so much, I'd leave it be. There's a downstairs loo and you've said both your parents keep themselves clean, it's amazing what you can do with a bowl and a sponge, often better than hospital.

Hospital can be a humiliating experience for an elderly person and I don't blame your dad one bit for getting out early. If he is content and takes care of himself, he will heal just as well at home.

He woukd undoubtedly be happier there, and it may well be better for his health, provided he doesn't end up falling down the stairs. Whether it's better for Mum's health for him to be there is another matter. She's not in great health herself and will be on the go for him all day.