Portsmouth this evening

[Shmoigel]

Has anyone else seen the news about what’s happening in Portsmouth this evening
A boat has arrived in Hampshire and the protesters from Dover are currently in the sea blocking passage with hundreds more on the quay blocking coaches waiting.

Ahhh come on, don’t make this a region/class war .

No one thinks a load of unregulated illegal immigration’s a good thing. It’s dangerous for us and lethal for them .

Nothing good or desirable!

But the authorities: police, border guards, life boats (remember some of these good folk are volunteers) are doing their best and a load of thugs turning up is exacerbating an already tough situation.

Sounds to me, no expert obviously, that the French efforts are driving the people smugglers further west so the problem is soon to be Dorset, Devon, Cornwall, Wales and so on. It’s

a massive issue that will only be solved by calm international cooperation.

I don’t think there’s any sense that it’s been made easy for Somalian and Eritrean people.

The mind boggles as to how shit their lives must be if they think coming here is the answer with freezing channel crossings and a load of thugs as a welcoming committee .

May I gently suggest a little TV film watching tonight: The Old Oak, Families like ours, the Swimmers … all dealing with refugee crisis .

With the climate emergency it’s all only going to get worse and more terrifying for everyone.

We need calm, humane rationality NOW.

The veto was discussed at the time;

Brexit campaigners have warned Cameron "cannot be trusted on Turkey" after he repeatedly refused to confirm whether he would veto the country's entry into the European Union.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/681436/David-Cameron-Question-Time-Turkey-EU-entry

Would any of our politicians veto Ukraine joining if we were still EU members? Ukraine's pre-war population was over 40 million (more than Poland) - it's very feasible that 500,000 plus Ukrainians would seek to move to the UK with freedom of movement if they joined the EU and we were still members. Ukraine was the poorest country in Europe even before the war. Albania? Would we veto Albania? We deport Albanians back to their home country every month.

It's not enough. A much more aggressive stance needs to be taken. Something along the lines of what was introduced in Australia.

What would you ideally want to happen? In terms of how many people we can take etc

It's lethal for us too. The family of the poor girl murdered in the hostel are speaking out they want them all immediatly detained until we know who they are and it's incredible it's not already some so.

Agree. We are am Island we might as well make the most of it and control the type of people we take in

Respectfully, even if those countries are godawful, they will hardly be improved by huge nos of their healthy young citizens upping and fleeing to Europe. I don't know what the answer is, but Europe is in deep crisis and there's no suggestion that the migrants will be anything but a net drain on our economies. Mass migration to wealthier countries with generous welfare states just doesn't work; migration has traditionally been successful when people go to countries and graft hard to establish themselves.

I know, I know. It’s not good. But the thugs aren’t the answer. If anything they’ll increase the likelihood of disorder leading to illegall immigrants getting past control. What is needed is swift, humane and thorough procedures. Just sending them back without recourse is likely to make them try again, this time armed with intelligence on how to do YT.

I am interested in how ideas of mass migration would work, I can’t see it. It’s tricky as is but maybe someone can paint a better picture.

Which is exactly why international discussion and cooperation is needed. Not cutting international aid. The thugs just increase the risk of illegal immigrants getting through because of the disruption they cause. Sending back without recourse or vetting will just mean they try again. The thugs are just wasting time, money and resources. Given the CV of their leader, I think they are just looking for a fight .

I can’t see how bringing more people in, with international co operation even, would lower tension.

The Irish after the Famine? Literally millions of Irish people emigrated to the New World. Nearly every Irish person today has tonnes of distant cousins in the US, Canada, Australia, I certainly do! But it's not comparable to today's immigrants coming to our already overcrowded island. Our forebears had to work and establish themselves from the outset. And yes, I know the native populations of those countries were displaced in the process, as the European settlers advanced across their lands.

Sending them back means some won't try again - either because they run out of money or because they choose somewhere easier. Likewise some other potential migrants will see their example and make a different choice.

People always choose the easiest and best option available to them. That's human. So we must change our behaviour so that illegal entry to the UK is not the easiest and best option for people we don't want.

Security is never about being invulnerable. It's simply about making the effort and cost of getting through the barriers higher than the reward for doing do.

Ahhh come on, don’t make this a region/class war .
**
We need calm, humane rationality NOW.

….but let’s call working class young men “thugs” as many times as we can in every post when these young men are standing up against the destruction of their way of life and an increasing level of danger and unpleasantness towards their women and girls from men from cultures alien to our own, without knowing who the demonstrators all are and what their motivations are for being at Dover and Portsmouth….

I don’t image you saw the interview with the vicar at Portsmouth for example.

Very calm, rational and non divisive 👍

I think saying " it's not good " is rather minimising the needless and sensless loss of life .

Agree. It's utterly obnoxious.

I want the people smugglers dealt with. Interpol should go under cover as asylum seekers and catch the traffickers. Make it too hot to handle.

I want a quota system based on wealth to take refugees in

I want those who have successfully settled to teach English and British customs and values to new settlers

I want rich countries to properly aid the poor countries

I want international law applied to countries like Iran to stop them persecuting their own people.

I want international law applied to Israel to bring an end to innocent people’s lives being ruined in Palestine. I don’t call Hamas and Hezbollah innocent btw.

I want an end to the Ukraine war.

I want reparations to Africa.

I want reparation to countries affected by us buggering up the climate.

I want humane, clean and well resourced refugee shelters in each rich country.

I want net zero to combat climate change.

I want the end of all nuclear weapons and funds redirected towards international aid and climate change

I want armed forces properly funded to give international aid and protection

I want social media bosses to be held accountable when they allow lies to be spread

I want remedial work done to mitigate climate change. Such as cloud seeding and barriers to prevent polar melt.

I want education programmes for girls in Afghanistan

I want our utilities to be returned to public ownership so all profits go into making them sustainable, excellent and affordable

I want industry returned to this country: let’s start with our own electric vehicles, wind farms, solar farms in the old mining areas to get those areas back on their feet

I want council housing built to high energy sustainable standards

I want reservoirs dug to ensure winter storage of water for agriculture and irrigation

I want our armed forces veterans properly housed and provided for

I want the roads resurfaced

i want good solar powered street lights

I want a nationalised transport system with guards to look after women, girls and vulnerable passengers

I want misogyny and harassment treated like hate crime

I want to see care assistants, teaching assistants, shop workers, refuse collectors treated like heroes

I want more hours of free childcare for working parents

I want weekly briefings from Downing Street (like the Covid ones) giving detailed and accurate figures about net migration.

I want a gradual move to plant based diets

I want the probation service re-nationalised and funded to support communities and newly released prisoners

That’s one long shopping list.

The only thing that’s missing is an answer to the question PP asked you. Funny that.

Second one down

I want a quota system based on wealth to take refugees in

This?

I see no number there, just some vague musings.

Who sets the quotas?
What wealth? If someone is wealthy but they need to flee don’t they deserve asylum? Or is your generosity reserved for economic migrants?
Who qualifies for the quota?

How many?
One million? Twenty million? Fifty million?

If they wanted to stop it, they could stop it. Those bloody dinghies are coming in from China and that delivery could be stopped. Journalists know who the people smugglers are and the authorities aren’t interested. Britain is being forced to take the immigrants because they are still coming in the back end and being spread across Europe like a slow leak.

The incentives to make the journey have to disappear. No access to money. No housing. No benefits. We have to turn off the tap. When interviewed the migrants say our Government is kind and will care for them. We are considered the equivalent of a retirement village. Why the hell my household tax is supporting the world to flood in the back door is beyond me. We are absolutely brasic, completely skint as a country. Owe trillions with no way of paying our debts. More tax rises in the next budget and yet we are still paying billions to house, feed, water, provide medical care for whoever floats into the country. It’s beyond mad.

The percentage of refugees a country should take is proportional to its share of the total GDP of all participating countries. I can’t tell you the figures because they fluctuate and will likely increase within 6 months due to the coming weather emergency. However, the formula would be simple enough given the input figures. I hope this helps.

Which bit was that? Australia has taken a number of actions regarding illegal immigration.

So Switzerland for example will have to take in 25 million?

We will have to take in 15 million? And counting.

No, all perfectly well thought out.

How do you want to pay for it?

The UK is currently borrowing an extra £129billion each year to cover the things people want and are already getting. That's costing £109 billion in interest payments each year - 3.6% of everything we make - and obviously rising, since we're borrowing more each year.

Our tax and benefit system is already hugely skewed for redistribution - far more so than other European countries. The UK's state services and welfare state are currently largely paid for by dangerously few people, whose personal talents bring not only growth but also wider employment opportunities to the UK.

Just today it was announced that one of the UK's 157 billionaires is leaving the country for Greece, undoubtedly due to ever-increasing and unfair tax. He has an estimated personal fortune of $4billion, and was paying £330million per year in tax. Not any more.

You can either have unfettered immigration, or you can have a welfare state which subsidises the less wealthy. You can't have both.