Conversation style - is this an English thing

[SE4mum]

I’m English but recently made a social group of friends from other countries through an activity - German, French and Indian. They’re lovely and what I’m going to say isn’t a problem- more of an observation.

I’ve noticed that when I say something mildly self deprecating, they tend to take it at face value rather than laugh it off.

For example, I’ve mentioned my son’s laziness regarding homework and my full fat Coke addiction. Now among my largely English school parent friendship group, that sort of thing would receive a ‘oh, same here’ or ‘you should see my kid!’ kind of response. But among my new friends, it’s more ‘oh dear, coke is terrible for you. Can you switch to water some of the time?’ or ‘oh no, you should tell his head of year about it and get them on board’

It’s made me wonder if my normal conversation might come across as weird to other cultures? They never seem to talk about themselves this way.

So if you are not English, is this something you’ve noticed and how does it make you feel? Is it annoying?

Ps in case I sound insular and wide-eyed - I’m mixed race (but born and raised in England), I’ve travelled a lot, worked abroad, and am not naive to other cultures, but this is something that has weirdly just become apparent to me

You are asking them to pick up nuance in their second language.
not British but yes see this humour type and took a long time to understand it

Tbf she also sounds like she was joking. Eastern Europeans are masters of deadpan because smiling is considered differently in their culture

In what way is smiling considered differently in Eastern Europe @Sunbringer?

Absolutely a UK and female thing!!

I absolutely love that British people bond so readily with humour, it’s a joy. It makes daily life so much more energising, less transactional.

I think it's fabulously British and fundamentally charming. Those who say it is protective may be right but it can also put people at ease if you show that you don't think you're the bee's knees - allows some vulnerability to show all around. E.g. if I were the most qualified or senior in the room, I might self deprecate so others didn't feel intimidated or like they should stand on ceremony.

That said, my inability to take myself seriously in any context infuriates me! I have to really work at that at work now I'm senior - you get nowhere if you can't back yourself when you need to.

@PurplebudsWhitebuds you sound like a right laugh

From my experience, Welsh and Scottish people are very funny with quiet self deprecation. No knowledge of Ireland but I’d be surprised if they don’t do this.

Oh the bone dry Scot’s humour has a place in my heart. Irresistible.

I agree it comes from a place of security. I’ve known some incredibly brainy people in really big jobs but if you ask them what they do they really play it down “I know something about boats” - from a ship designer, “I do the colouring in” - from the person in charge or marketing and design for a global company, “I play games all day” - high level games designers, and so on. It’s a very British trait to be brilliant and totally play it down. Comes in useful when you are dealing with the opposition !

Self deprivation is definitely a British thing.

North Americans don’t really like the negative and think the world is hard enough without being negative about yourself.

Just a cultural difference.

I don't why you are being so unpleasant just because of the way I interpret what people say to me.

Are you always so dismissive of people.
just because they don't think like you?

I presume you are also similarly dismissive of OP's friends who also take what she says at face value. Or are just wanting to have a go at me?

I did a bit of research into this when my DD moved to Kazakhstan with a strong Russian influence. Smiling, particularly at strangers, tends to indicate that you’re simple-minded. Children are encouraged to smile only when something is genuinely funny. You don’t smile as a means of greasing the wheels of social interaction and pleasantries.

I think also it's read as coming from a place of security (not necessarily arrogance which is different) within the UK. Whereas in other countries it is read as insecurity/lack of confidence. On the other hand being "all mouth and no trousers" or full of bluster is read as insecurity sometimes within the UK. Whereas in other places it's how you are supposed to be of you want people to take you seriously. So can lead to misunderstandings.

That reminds me of a friend who went to Russua decades ago. They were on a coach with a guide and she got a bit upset because the tourists were always laughing. She thought they were laughing at her so they had to explain it's the way British people communicate. She must have been new to the job.

It's a British thing for sure, but even more pronounced in some regions. Birmingham is especially self-depricating. People from the South-East can seem a bit jarring when you're used to Brummies.

I don't know if it's culture/age etc. Certain things people used to say about mental health etc can be received very differently.
Some people say their culture takes something more seriously than others. Whether that's fair, or even true (for example, my culture takes education very seriously, and parents support their child with reading more than...) is debatable.

Other cultures find this tendency hypocritical and/or mendacious because they can’t fathom that a person would denigrate him/herself (although it’s normally women) in this way. I kind of get it: what’s the point in putting yourself down? Ime it’s down to a lack of self-confidence and/or an inability to accept compliments and/or shyness and/or actively wanting to hide something/deflect. Sometimes it can even come off as superior (oh, you’re trying to make ME feel better by deigning to lower yourself to MY level and make out like you’re not better than me at xyz??), which is often the opposite of the intention.

As a pp had it, imo it’s to do with earnestness. The same culture that can sincerely and meaningfully produce Count Binface as a riposte to Nigel Farage, is the same one that refuses to take itself seriously. HOWEVER, this is also in the context of class. The upper classes are more inclined towards sincerity and earnestness than the working and middle. I think this lack class awareness/understanding is at the root of why/how foreigners struggle with this.

Eye contact is another one. In some cultures avoiding eye contact, especially with someone senior, is a sign of respect. Whereas in the UK/European context it can come across as shy or untrustworthy/insincere (since people believe not meeting someone's eyes is a sign of lying. Which it isn't).

I agree, mostly, but I don't think the UC are at all more inclined towards earnestness. I have certainly observed some UMC and UC groups using self-deprecation in a very pointed way, intended to subtly point out someone else's nouveau riche or 'Not Quite Our Type' characteristics.

The most pointed one I think I ever saw was a Tatler (I think) article about Kate and Pippa Middleton at Marlborough, which was full of gently malicious, 'self-deprecating' quotations from parents saying things like 'Oh, they always made us feel bad -- the girls were always so beautifully turned out, brand-new uniforms and hockey sticks and trunks, and they always had the most elaborate picnics on Sports Day, and the rest of us were just slobbing around!' when the message was in fact 'They were arrivistes and try-hards, who didn't grasp that good form involves a battered trunk that's been handed down through three generations of the family, and just throwing a sixpack of crisps and possibly some sandwiches of over-hung pheasant at the children on Sports Day.'

I suppose I mean that self-deprecation doesn't always code as 'Let's bond'. Faux self-deprecation can do the opposite. You're not in our tribe.

Yeah I really got this in America.

was on a bus in New Jersey once and was talking to the woman next to me (can’t remember why) and she’d just had a baby and was back from maternity leave and I said gosh they’re hard work at that age aren’t they and she told me her child was the light of her life and she’d never consider anything she did for her child too much - which certainly shut me up.

mine were bloody hard work at that age.

Yes, and Japanese people are more likely to use laugher as a way of getting past an uncomfortable moment, often in the context of topics or situations most of the rest of us would not laugh at. And as a pp said, in some Eastern European cultures, smiling has a different set of social meanings, and the circumstances in which you would smile would be different.

if You look at Freddie Allison on instagram he does loads of funny explanations of the different conversational styles @Freddie.alllison note the 3 x l

Hah, yes, and never be lulled into playing a match with a native English speaker who says "I play a bit of tennis" (or insert sport here).