Conversation style - is this an English thing

[SE4mum]

I’m English but recently made a social group of friends from other countries through an activity - German, French and Indian. They’re lovely and what I’m going to say isn’t a problem- more of an observation.

I’ve noticed that when I say something mildly self deprecating, they tend to take it at face value rather than laugh it off.

For example, I’ve mentioned my son’s laziness regarding homework and my full fat Coke addiction. Now among my largely English school parent friendship group, that sort of thing would receive a ‘oh, same here’ or ‘you should see my kid!’ kind of response. But among my new friends, it’s more ‘oh dear, coke is terrible for you. Can you switch to water some of the time?’ or ‘oh no, you should tell his head of year about it and get them on board’

It’s made me wonder if my normal conversation might come across as weird to other cultures? They never seem to talk about themselves this way.

So if you are not English, is this something you’ve noticed and how does it make you feel? Is it annoying?

Ps in case I sound insular and wide-eyed - I’m mixed race (but born and raised in England), I’ve travelled a lot, worked abroad, and am not naive to other cultures, but this is something that has weirdly just become apparent to me

Wins the internet today 🤣

Yes, in your case, but there is certainly a cultural element to other cultures not understanding that this is a self-deprecating joke intended to invite a reciprocal joky 'confession' and promote bonding. It's not really much more personal than a remark on the weather.

Totally cultural...
The Germans will take it at face value and feel it's deeply unhealthy, then respond very bluntly
The French will be disgusted at your greed and wonder at your lack of self control, and therefore think your lazy son is a natural consequence
The Indians will be unimpressed with not having your son in line more

I hate self-deprecating British humour - it serves to diminish us. Yes it can be funny, and it is a shared trait, but it just looks weak around others and frankly we come to believe the things we tell ourselves

Yes, me too. Coke's okay every so often but it's basically tooth eroding filth and not good for you.
Also, I'm English 😁

They are trained to be a sort of permanent (exhausting) PR company for their own life.
OMG that is so true of Americans. Perfectly put. The total obligation to be cheerful and positive and 'sell' themselves all the time.

Have any of you read any Timothy Mo books? I searched for this online and the scene I'm thinking of is from The Monkey King, his debut novel. I'm quoting here as I'm meant to be working

1. The First Compliment: The visiting mother politely compliments the Poon family's daughter (Wallace’s new wife, May Ling, or one of her sisters), praising her appearance, obedience, or usefulness around the house.
2. The Deflection & Counter-Insult: The Poon mother immediately rejects the praise. To accept a compliment about your own child out loud is seen as arrogant and mathematically dangerous (as it might invite bad luck). Instead, she insists her daughter is incredibly lazy, ugly, and a total burden on the family.
3. The Competitive Escalation: Not to be outdone, the visiting mother turns around and compliments the Poon child again, while loudly broadcasting how much worse her own daughter is. She calls her own child stupid, useless, and clumsy.
4. Ping-Pong: The scene progresses into a bizarre, comedic duet where both mothers are aggressively vying to prove that their own child is the absolute worst, while maintaining that the other woman's child is an absolute angel.

🙄

It’s not that great though.

I’m Irish and I think we’d be the same, and definitely notice with people I work with that I have to watch as if I’m exhausted and act dramatic they’ll nearly think they need to call a doctor for me!!!!

No shit Sherlock!

I loved the Olympic Opening Ceremony. I felt represented and was so relieved it was humorous and not a bling fest.

Sometimes my humour is just too deadpan even for the English.

I will say something humorous, in a dry-as-dust and totally ironic way, but my face is missing the cues needed so people just give me strange looks and move away.
I need to work on adding a grin or a wink.

bloody hell that’s a reaction. Interesting though to see how others minds work.

Yes, I liked it too, and am not British, though I was living in London at the time -- I was just interested in Kate Fox's interpretation of it as a sort of extended act of joky self-deprecation on an occasion that is often for more formal and visibly patriotic, in that it continually undercut things with comedy because this was a country that didn't need to insist on its own importance on a po-faced way.

It would have had a very different feel if the London Philharmonic had just played the Chariots of Fire theme over footage of British athletes winning things at previous Olympics, or if the queen had arrived on the state barge down the river or something.

(I mean, I'm not entirely convinced by her interpretation of it, but it interested me...)

Notions...

There is a certain type of British person I absolutely adore. I mean people who are funny, ironic and self-mocking with an RP accent and beautiful, refined manners. They are the height of civilisation. You find them in certain novels (P G Wodehouse especially), in TV shows like Monty Python and in Radio 4 comedy shows. Stephen Fry is a good example.

On the other hand, there is something to be said for the assertive, ‘can do’, ‘go for it’ attitude of Americans. I also find Eastern Europeans far harder and more competent workers. They’re not held back by irony and self-mockery. Things are black and white. They just say what needs to be done and then do it.

I'm American with all of the positivity and can-do spirit that entails 😁but have lived in the UK for most of my adult life. Mostly I get it, but the self deprecation can be tiring at times and can come across as wittering.
"oh I can't park a car to save my life!" But you're 50 and have been driving for 30 years
"oh I forgot my lunch again, what am I like" Erm, forgetful? Get it together!
"oh my son is addicted to diet coke, what am I like?" is this a problem or not??

It can be really tiresome. I get it's a bonding mechanism and you're meant to respond in kind - "oh me too, you should see me attempt to reverse!" or "oh haha, I'd forget my head if it wasn't screwed on" or "oh haha, my son lives on haribo"... but it does become synchronised wittering then!! Also, I think women do this more so than men and it can become a contest of patheticism

Yes it's a good job you kept quiet about the meth and the school absenteeism... Agree, it's English humour and may mildly worry your continental friends.

I think it’s widely known Americans struggle to get tge British sense of humour/sarcasm and tend to take things at face value. I once went on a date with an American and was five minutes late (to be fair it was deliberate as I didn’t want to appear too keen 😂). I apologised and said, ‘Don’t take it personally. I’m always late. I’d be late to my own funeral’! He looked really puzzled then said, ‘But you’d be dead so it wouldn’t be your fault’? I realised there and then it wasn’t going to work! 😂

Yes I think it's quite a British thing.

I'm also very careful about self-deprecation at work. Basically I don't do it in a work context.

100% agree.

I work with other nationalities and have stopped using it at work too, it just caused too many misunderstandings

Yes it’s an English thing. I’m English but my family moved to the US when we were young but I’m the only one who moved back. My older sister particularly never seems to get when I’m joking or being sarcastic about something. She asked if my son wanted to go to the ballet when we last visited and he said ‘I’m not sophisticated enough’. I told her this and she went on and on how ridiculous that was to say etc etc. I’m like it was a joke! (He did go and enjoyed it). She just didn’t get it. Typically American.

not with this group of friends, but once I remember getting in a lift with a colleague who was Eastern European. I pressed the wrong floor and I said ‘god I’m always doing that, I’m so…’ and she dead-panned ‘dumb?’

I replied (a bit testily) ‘gosh yes, I mean you wouldn’t think i had two Oxbridge degrees now would you?’

that's the only time it’s pissed me off. Like don’t mistake my self deprecation for stupidity

look back though, if I was working in an office again, I would think twice about talking this way

its different in a friendship context though

Also re a previous comment yes I’m using English not British deliberately, because it feels England-specific, although as discussed that may be incorrect