Can't sleep worrying about y6 WhatsApp drama!

[Quokkafeet]

My daughter turns 11 in August, off to secondary in September.

We've always been quite firmly against getting her a smartphone. She does have a Nokia phone for texting, keeping in touch with us and friends.

She has never really asked for a smartphone in earnest. Mentioned a couple of times in the last few months. She's generally a happy girl, nice friends. Loves school.

One of her friends (friend A) has older siblings and always had a lot of freedom with tech. Apple watch, iPhone, tablet from young age. I've explained different families do things differently and DD has accepted that. Recently another of her lovely friends (friend B) who she has been friends with since reception got a smartphone and it was like an overnight change in the way this girl interacted with my DD. Odd, snide comments, telling her other people were calling her annoying. Regularly telling her how late she was up video calling other members of the class and that they would have called DD but she didn't have a phone. Often friend B and A would text DD in the evening telling her they were on a video call together and it was "so funny" etc. I could tell DD was starting to feel left out but more than that, hurt by the fact they were quite obviously intending for her to feel that way.

Anyway she's come home the other night and cried, actually saying thank you for not letting me have a smartphone. Apparently there have been huge fall outs on a class WhatsApp group that I didn't even realise existed because DD obviously isn't in it. Multiple kids sent to head in their last couple of days of y6. Mainly because they were bitching about children that weren't on it and then a couple of kids screenshot the conversation and showed it to the children concerned. It wasn't DD that was targeted in this bit of meanness, but what has happened is one of the targeted children asked to join the group and changed her name on WhatsApp to my DD's name. She then joined the conversation, impersonating my DD, and told the group she has a crush on one of the boys.

DD is devastated and I've no idea where to take this. School has finished. I don't know the parents. Mainly DD is just completely freaked out that someone can pretend to be her and she has no idea it's even happening. I asked if it made her want to join the group so she felt in control of what was being said and she said no, she wants absolutely nothing to do with it and now doesn't ever want a smartphone at all.

Parents of y6/ 7 kids.... Is any of this normal? How the hell are you parenting your way through this? It's clear these kids in DD's class are in no way ready for WhatsApp and their behaviour has become unhinged as a result.

Also, I feel DD is being left out because she isn't on nightly 'calls' with her mates but I don't want her facetiming random groups of classmates late into the night and she doesn't really want to do that either but at the same time, she's out of it.

I'd particularly love to hear from any parents of kids who don't have WhatsApp/ smartphones and how their kids are navigating y7!

This is so encouraging, thank you!

I never said she was Autistic or even suggested it. Sometimes kids can just not be as ready for things as other kids, without being autistic

Whatsapp issues always happen with year 6 from my experience. It's unfortunate yours has happened now school has finished, usually our head has to get involved as what is an outside school issue becomes an in school issue, as like you say people talk about what's been said.
One parent did bring it up in our year 6 chat about they had checked their daughter's phone and found some nasty comments about another child and suggested people check the group to see whether it is their child. It also got reported to school.
My son has a smartphone but I refuse to let him go on WhatsApp for this reason.

Children and teenagers communicate so much online that if they want to find a way they will. There are so many different platforms that you can't really demonise just one. I think it feels more horrible if everyone is on something and you are not. In a way it is better to learn how to deal with it rather than just hope it goes away.

My two are in their late teens now. My eldest had never had any issues with social media. She has been on the year group chat since Yr7, but only actively takes part in group chats with her close friends. She has virtually zero social media presence and she has only had positive experiences with social media.

My son's year group is a bloody nightmare and there are lots of bullying issues. He has chosen not to be on any of the group chats and only uses it for his close friends. This is partly because he had a similar issue to your DD in Yr6, before he had a phone, and it put him off being part of the bigger group chats. His experiences with social media have been more negative.

The main issue is that some of them do not understand that it is basically public, everything can be screenshot or photoed. Every embarrassing comment can be read by the whole year group, every photo and every stupid or mean comment is often seen by their peers, parents and teachers (this goes for parent Whatsapp chats as well). I think most of the damage occurs to the children who expose themselves too much on it. They want the attention but forget about all the lurkers ready to take the piss.

Snapchat was always more toxic than Whatsapp probably because it has disappearing messages, so harder for parents to monitor. Plus the snap streak keeps them on it, if they are into that kind of thing.

Life was far easier before damn technology got involved - it causes more damage than good in my opinion! I couldn't ever see WHY phones were allowed in schools in the first place - my age group (year of 89) managed perfectly well without them!

In that case I apologise @TotallyTangerineGeum - it was because you mentioned autism in your post, I thought you were bringing it into the conversation as a possible explanation for her not being ready.

I do totally agree children develop and different rates and agree that's one of the issues with us all going to the next stage at a specific age, or with people saying smartphones for y6, or y7.

Honestly I'm not one of those parents who think their child can do no wrong and believe me, DD can have her moments! But in this case I do genuinely think the problem is with the other kids not her 😂

from my experience the chats are a lot worse with girls, my ds (14) chats to his mates in video call a lot, but always when they’re gaming together rather than anything else. They barely message eachother except to say, “can you come on?” “10 mins” “k”

However when they’re gaming together we’re in year 7 the girls kept adding the boys to their group chats and I was horrified with the way the girls were chatting. It was vile.

i think you and your daughter have handled this very well. She sounds mature

Have you seen the Smartphone Free Childhood movement? It's worth a Google, there's normally a WhatsApp group local to you/your child's school to offer solidarity when you feel like your child is the only one left without a phone.

My eldest is 7 so haven't got to this stage yet! I am dreading it. Although we live rurally so I will be driving them all to school forever so should be less of a reason to need one!

Yes I have, have signed the pact and on the (ironic) WhatsApp group for it for my local area. I think it's a great movement and I agree with the ethos but I'm losing faith in it a bit because so many parents who were all for it a couple of years ago now have kids on social media. In fact, the mum of friend B, the one that started being unkind to DD when she got an iPhone, is still listed in the smartphone free childhood WhatsApp group!.

According to the website, there are 10 children/ parents signed up at my child's new secondary, out of 1400 students. I just don't think it works at secondary to be honest, I feel like it's fighting against the tide 🙁

Ultimately, you will make the decision in the best interests of your DD, but I would think very carefully about this and how socially isolating it may be. My DD is in Y9 now and has had a smart phone since Y6. Whatsapp in particular is an integral part of her socialising. Over the last few years she has:
*Video called friends & played online games together.
*Used whatsapp for general everyday chit chat e.g. what are you wearing for own clothes day, do you have the sheet for history honework, are you going to film club etc etc.
*Made whatsapp groups with close friends. School has a big catchment area so in peeson meet ups can be sporadic. All out of school meet ups are organised on whatsapp. They just all shared dates they are around in the summer so the most people could come.
*Kept in contact with extra-curricular groups. She is in her footie teams group and both school and club athletics. When she has done hikes etc. for scouts they used whatsapp groups to organise who is bringing what.

It isnt without problems. Big groups tend to be problematic (e. g. all of year 7). She has not had significant problems with groups of actual friends. We talked about it a lot in Y6 & 7. She knows to tell me and/or leave or mute any group she is uncomfortable with. She knows it comes down to be charged at night, it is put away when eating etc. etc
There are ground rules. I dont know a single child who didnt start Y7 with a smart phone. Even those with strict parents. As soon as they make new friends they share numbers. It is completely integral to my DD's social life & she would be lost without it. I know they could text or call without whatsapp etc., but in my experience they dont.

This is no criticism. I know all the negatives. However, for DD with parental support & guidance it has been an overall positive.

But WhatsApp is only for over 13 year olds.

It is, but myself and the vast, vast majority of other parents at mt DD's school (& in the surrounding area) allow their kids to break the rule. It might not be right, but it is the reality of the situation. Im not even sure i knew it was 13+ when she is in y7, but i dont think it would have made a difference to my decision. I would have weighed up the negstives of breaking a rule with the negatives of DD being socially isolated. Maybe people might think this makes me a bad parent, but im comfortable with my choices. I have also let her watch 15 films etc. My parents were fully aware i went to pubs & drank underage. I accept sometime I break rules.

DD has just finished Y7, and tbf it was probably good that she had a smartphone as they set up a group chat at the end of Y6 (no problems or arguments) and they all went to different schools. She's unfortunately dropped contact with the ones who didn't have phones.
She's pretty strict on herself about phone use. She does a lot of downtime when it's off, and likes to digital detox herself, so maybe just a good idea to give some ideas on how kids can regulate their phone use. She often switches it off and calls it "social distancing" 😂But it has been very good for fostering friendships.

I'm like this too, I think it's knowing your child and working with them on what's appropriate. WhatsApp seems safe to me as they have to know the person, whereas Snapchat is more like a social media where anyone could contact them, I don't allow them to have it.

I was a parent who was never going to let my DD have a smartphone, then she was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes aged 10, needed a smart phone to monitor her blood glucose, so that was that..
Year 6 WhatsApp groups are notoriously awful!…. My DD removed herself from it sever times because she recognised how awful it was, and there was always someone on it so the was ages were 24/7..
we were out one day and one of her friends was sending her screenshots of the group and it was all kicking off, they’d apparently been playing a game on there where everyone was dared to do silly stuff, one mother had started talking on there on behalf of her child who has autism and accusing the whole year of bullying him, threatening the kids, even messaged me and I loved being able to say DD wasn’t I’m even in the group WhatsApp because she had removed herself because it was awful!

Theres a reason whatsapp has always been 13 plus!!

Believe me IT GETS WORSE.. year 7 WhatsApp kids shared an intimate photo which one girl and boy had sent to each other, the boys showed his mate so the girl put his nude on the group chat so he then put the girls on there.. luckily my DD is incredibly sensible with tech and came straight to me, cue the conversation about not having indecent images of children on your phone or sharing images etc, because although it wasn’t anything to do with her she could still get in trouble for having it, and serious trouble if she forwarded it,.. (she’d offered to forward it to me or show it to me hence that convo)… any way I never saw the picks (declined to) and emailed the school immediately, also told her to delete both images and never to keep anything like this anywhere in her phone!

My DD goes into year 11 in September and I am actually shocked that kids in year 6 are still getting smart phones. Schools in our area have completely banned them for the lower years. And has lockers in tutor where they all have to leave their phones locked away all day (at their own risk). If found with a phone in school it’s confiscated until an adult can come in and get it back! Other schools have locked belts which renders the phones useless. But as I say the lower years are only allowed the basic phones!

My advise to my DB and SIL who have children in primary is to keep them off phones as long as possible..

I could tell you so many awful stories about phones, DD’s friends have also accessed dating apps and shared and received intimate pics (dick pics), one was groomed on her phone by a boy from another school and ended up in the forest with him for a ‘picnic’ - year 7 she was and he pressured her to perform oral sex! Awful!
so many of the girls talking to alleged teen boys! Sextortion - bullying - my DD had one girl text her so much that it was impacting her MH, she ended up having to fall out with the girl and blocked her for her own sanity! There’s no escape!!
my other brothers daughter has just got a phone and her parents can not believe the change in her!! She’s just sat doom scrolling and has become moody and snappy- we’ve all seen the teenagers who meet up to socialise and end up just watching videos on their phones and (probably) comparing nudes they’ve received .. I know my DD has said her friends have shared pics and sat giggling… my concern though is also what they had to send back!
Anyway the WhatsApp group… is there a way to report it? On Facebook to other parents?? - is there a year 6 Facebook group or WhatsApp for the parents?? Do you have the friends parents details or could you get the girls details who is pretending to be your daughter?! Could your DD’s friends out this other girl as being who she really is and for impersonating your DD… maybe delete her from the group chat as an imposter…. This also highlights the risks though doesn’t it… ANYONE could join the chat impersonating one of the 11 years olds… including someone’s parent/weird uncle or older brother who wants to groom himself an 11 year old!!
My DD has her locations turned off… but you’d be amazed how many don’t… she can see where half her friends are on snap chat and as a result knows when they’re at the park drinking or at home…. How scary is that info in the wrong hands!!!

Thankfully my DD doesn’t really see friends outside of school because she recognises that they’re all daft! (Smoking, vaping, sex, shoplifting etc) it’s so sad

Absolutely shocking to read.

This really is the issue - I read posts like @Owlbookend and feel like I'm damaging DD by being an overprotective mum and feel awful... Then I read things like this and think actual WTF!! It makes my made head spin!

I wonder how this will be policed and enforced though!
kids will take in a dummy phone to hand in and keep theirs on their person. Popping to the loo to use it.

My grandson was allowed a smart phone when he went to secondary school last year. His parents monitor his use very closely. It is set up so it turns off at 8pm until 7 the next morning. He isn't allowed on any social media or what's app groups but he does have individual friends on what's app and they organise their social life through ir. He also gets homework via his phone so I think he would struggle without a phone.
I think it is possible to teach children of secondary school age to use smartphones responsibility but parents have to be very vigilant

The problems with young teens / tweens and inappropriate content on WhatsApp etc, wouldn't happen if parents didn't allow access to those apps in the first place! It's not a new concept that social media is harmful to children so I don't know why parents still get shocked / surprised by what they have allowed their young children to be exposed to

Also, the parents who don't put appropriate safeguards in place to protect their children, like the phone being unable to download new apps without parental permission, parents regularly checking the phone and immediately imposing consequences for any misuse, talking to their DCs about risks and how to try to avoid harm, or how to talk about feeling upset or scared. All these options and more are available to parents as safety measures. We wouldn't let 11 year olds drink alcohol and smoke cigarettes because we know that behaviour is harmful so why do some people ignore the law, safety features and common sense available to them to protect their DC online?

Not if it's a parent managed account which my 12 year old GC has
https://faq.whatsapp.com/875902238256170/?cms_platform=android

I think given the behaviour that has been mentioned on this thread, and the behaviour we have dealt with this week, we can be fairly certain that most parents aren't doing this and aren't monitoring. So when we allow our kids to have their own parent managed account and do the "right thing", we are still letting them loose into a world where everybody else is unmonitored and can send them anything and say anything and behave however.

You are absolutely not being over protective!

The amount of things I’ve had to report to schools safeguarding team over the past few years.. I’ve actually lost count!

I am lucky because my DD is incredibly mature and she comes to me with everything! She’s always been horrified at the bullying.

Parents saying ‘oh we check our kids phones/ they’re banned from joining groups or certain social media’… they’re so naïve!

In WhatsApp other kids are
constantly joining my DD into groups, it’s impossible to prevent… she leaves, they re-add her, she now mutes them or archives them otherwise they’d be pinging all day and all night!
it’s also impossible to police what they’re doing… you can send messages and delete them ‘for yourself’ and then delete the notification which says you’ve deleted it!!
Most social media now has a ‘disappearing message’ option which the other person can turn on so your child wouldn’t have control over that… and messages and photos disappear once they’re seen.

We've had incidences at school where kids have been pulled out of education completely because of bullying on social media, one nipper filmed a young girl performing a sexual act on him then showed everyone it! I don’t know what happened to him (nothing I suspect) but the girl disappeared! - rumours are she moved away - like miles away!… although DD also thinks she might just be being homeschooled and keeping hidden - how sad is that for her mental health!! Meanwhile the boy is still at the school facing no consequence at all!!
There are also apps that can be downloaded to hide other apps in plain sight… and apps that can be completely hidden! And I think parents forget that you don’t need the apps to have access .. you can just simply login using safari or google or whatever! These kids become so tech savvy they can outsmart us parents!!
my DD tells me this stuff and thinks it’s hilarious how stupid parents are to believe they can fully monitor everything little Jack is doing and looking at on his phone!
and I guarantee whatever the government put in place, phone companies do, these kids will always discover a way round it.
My DD has just had a new phone - needed one compatible with her diabetes pump so she can give insulin using her phone.. they now ask for you name age and proof (photographic ID)… straight away DD said most of her friends will just use a parents or older siblings ID to bypass all the restrictions..
so 100%keep your kids away from it for as long as possible!!

By only allowing them into groups where you trust the kids AND their parents.

This won't apply to everyone, but certainly we are in this situation.

To an extent kids do gravitate to others in their social bubble. If they aren't in with the in crowd on WhatsApp they will ultimately end up gravitating away from those groups one way or another.

Your daughter has said she doesn't want to be on WhatsApp and the girls concerned haven't acted like friends. So she isn't going to be in their bubble going forward.

This is where taking the time to get to know your child's friends and their parents does matter. If you can, make the effort, do.

I'm not arguing with you, just trying to understand how this works for you in practice.

How do I only allow them into groups where I know all the kids and parents if others can be added in at any point?

My kids are in a 3 form entry primary so 90 kids in y6. She's been there since reception and I've been very involved with school so know her group of friends and their parents really well. In her class, I know pretty much all the girls and their parents. Despite this, they have made different decisions to me because we don't all parent the same way. There are lots of kids in the year group I don't know. So in your case, do you say yes you can have WhatsApp but only these children and you can't add any others? And has that worked for you?

I honestly have made the effort to get to know my daughter's friends.

It's a bit frustrating to hear the kids allowed on WhatsApp be described as the in crowd.

It's working for us yes.

DS is seeing the drama elsewhere and we are explaining our decision making.

He is happy with this. He understands why. Your daughter sounds similar.

We have friends who are older and they were strict about their phone use as teens. They are now 18 and 20. Both have thanked their parents and say they appreciated it when it finally came around to A levels. It allowed them to focus on their work and not be addicted and sucked into drama.

They didn't go phone free. I personally don't think that's helpful either. It doesn't solve the problem. It just creates different one.

You need to develop a relationship with your child over the subject and work through it with them and talk to them about the whys. That takes effort and parenting.

The kids who have had this have ultimately come out the best from what we've seen because central to the decision is an ongoing conversation and dialogue with your child which is a two way process about what's going on and why these decisions have been made. It's not going "because I say so" so the kid doesn't understand.

Going into high school I do think the kids naturally self filter into those who are obsessed with phones and those who are not.