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Ukraine Invasion: Part 35

989 replies

MagicFox · 12/11/2022 16:40

We're still here, on 35 πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦

OP posts:
Thread gallery
86
ScrollingLeaves · 22/11/2022 11:15

ReleaseTheDucksOfWarΒ· Today 09:55
ISW Key Takeaways

Thank you very much.

Re:

US official: 'Vast difference' between Russian and Ukrainian reactions to war crime accusations.

At a briefing on Nov. 21, United States Ambassador for Global Criminal Justice Beth Van Schaak said while Russia "inevitably responds (to accusations of war crimes) with propaganda, denial, mis- and disinformation, the Ukrainian authorities have generally acknowledged abuses and have denounced them and have pledged to investigate them."

It is good that UKraine is acknowledging when they commit way-crimes too. There was a worrying report the other day of Russian POWs lying face down without weapons and a Ukrainian soldier then coming out of a shed and shooting them all. The BBC ran a check on the story and it appeared it might be credible. Al Jazeera also reported on it I think. I cannot find those links today but the New York Times has the report:

www.nytimes.com/2022/11/20/world/europe/russian-soldiers-shot-ukraine.html

ScrollingLeaves · 22/11/2022 11:15

War crimes.

ScrollingLeaves · 22/11/2022 11:22

The Al Jazeera report a few days ago does not include the assertion that one of the surrendering/captured (?) Russian soldiers had opened fire on the Ukrainians.
www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/11/18/russia-accuses-ukraine-of-executing-more-than-10-pows

MissConductUS · 22/11/2022 11:40

@notimagain

Oh, and BTW I did the Royal Navy a disservice upthread - they hung onto some their AA guns much later than the 70s….whether there are still any around that could be repurposed for land use?

According to this they have, among others, 7.62 miniguns and the Phalanx CIWS rotary cannons, just as the USN has, and they have been reused in a land role.

Active Royal Navy weapon systems

Phalanx guns were removed from ships and were crewed by RN personnel based at Basra airport, as part of the Centurion C-RAM system.[7]

ScrollingLeaves · 22/11/2022 11:59

This was the BBC report.
www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63676446

Surplus2requirements · 22/11/2022 12:09

ScrollingLeaves · 22/11/2022 11:22

The Al Jazeera report a few days ago does not include the assertion that one of the surrendering/captured (?) Russian soldiers had opened fire on the Ukrainians.
www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/11/18/russia-accuses-ukraine-of-executing-more-than-10-pows

Nothing I have read has been able to identify the armed man that stepped out from behind the building.

If he is Ukrainian it's a war crime.

If he is Russian it was an attempted ambush.

Nobody knows for sure yet

ScrollingLeaves · 22/11/2022 12:20

AP report
from NBC news

In this report, a Ukrainian spokesperson says Ukraine’s policy is to have as many surrendered soldiers/POWs as possible in order to exchange them; killing them, as it has been alleged they did, does not make sense, but they will investigate.

It seems the circulating videos are snippets, making it difficult for us to be sure of the full story.
www.nbcnews.com/news/world/ukraine-video-allegedly-soldiers-shooting-russian-rcna58117

ScrollingLeaves · 22/11/2022 12:32

This Moscow Times article makes it easier to understand the complications regarding the interpretation of the video snippets and the drone footage of the shooting incident.

www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/11/21/visual-investigation-details-captive-russian-troops-deaths-by-shooting-a79443

ScrollingLeaves · 22/11/2022 12:54

From The Irish Times about the alleged Ukrainian shooting of Russian POWs
β€œVideos suggest captive Russian soldiers were killed at close range”
(But unfortunately I can’t seem to link the Irish Times without it turning into the New York Times, which has a paywall.)

Iva Vukusic, a war crimes prosecution expert at Utrecht University, said it was difficult to determine whether a war crime had or had not been committed based on the video evidence alone, and that the critical factor was time – when the Russians were shot.

β€œWas it in one or two bursts of fire at the moment of, or immediately after, the last Russian comes out and shoots at the Ukrainians?” Vukusic said. β€œOr was it after the immediate threat had been neutralised, as an act of revenge – then this is more clearly a war crime.”

If the Russians were shot in the heat of the moment, Vukusic said, it is not clearly a crime.

β€œIf these POWs were not searched yet, then the Ukrainians don’t know if they’re armed, even if they are on the ground.”

The Russian gunman’s actions are critical, too, Vukusic said, and could be deemed perfidy – feigning surrender or noncombatant status as a ruse against the Ukrainians – which may be prosecutable as a war crime under the Geneva Conventions.

β€œIt may very well be that, had this guy not fired, that they all would have been captured as POWs, and survived,” Vukusic added. UN investigators said last month that they had documented cases of Russian forces torturing civilian and military prisoners. The investigators also found that Ukrainian troops had tortured and abused prisoners of war, but β€œon a lesser scale.”

Fladdermus · 22/11/2022 13:21

Russia could of course take action to ensure none of its service personel are at risk of being the victims of war crimes in Ukraine, by not sending its service personel intto Ukraine. Fuck off back to Russia: problem solved. Simples!

ScrollingLeaves · 22/11/2022 14:03

Yes, Fladdermus.
Also on reading more, and seeing a slowed down video of the Russian soldier suddenly shooting from the shadow of the farm shed where he was hidden, whether he was acting alone, or as part of a planned ambush, it would not be surprising if the Ukrainians had opened fire on the Russian soldiers in the moment of reacting.

It is good this is being investigated though.

dibly · 22/11/2022 15:17

Agree Fladdermus.

Scrolling, the amount of Russian Twitter posts on this incident are insane but the footage of the Russian opening fire first look genuine. Appreciate still needs investigating but I know who I’m more inclined to believe.

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 22/11/2022 15:22

I have heard a claim from a fairly reliable source that there are some Ukrainian war crimes, but far far more Russian. Tbh I think it's impossible that there won't be some Ukrainian war crimes. A lot of the soldiers were previously civilians, there was only so much time for training and many will have lost family / friends and are under huge stress and in danger. Someone, somewhere, is going to snap.

There are a number of differences, including the level of savagery and the number of incidents, plus the chaos of the moment is going to lead to some problems specially with people trained for a long time, I'm sure.

Igotjelly · 22/11/2022 15:22

Cracks beginning to show on Russian State media:

twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1594915216026112000?s=20&t=HvId24QTki5vOnpeXnX8-A

ScrollingLeaves · 22/11/2022 15:43

IgotjellyΒ· Today 15:22
Cracks beginning to show on Russian State media:

twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1594915216026112000?s=20&t=HvId24QTki5vOnpeXnX8-A

I couldn’t catch the name but hurray for the one who answered the assertion that Russian territory was under threat [therefore they should use nuclear weapons against Ukraine] by saying, β€œIt wasn’t our territory till we declared it as ours”.

DesdamonasHandkerchief · 22/11/2022 16:28

Sounds like good news:

πŸ‡¨πŸ‡³πŸ›’ China has suspended the purchase of Russian oil, β€” Bloomberg

According to the publication, the decision is related to the upcoming introduction of a price ceiling for Russian oil, which is to be set on December 5.

twitter.com/justartsndstuff/status/1595066235615858689?s=61&t=oK_yvHMas6YsOWFev5LT2w

DesdamonasHandkerchief · 22/11/2022 18:03

Day 271, November 21, 2022. Summary of #Arestovych and #Feygin broadcast
Posted on 22 November 2022

πŸ”₯Battlefield overview

πŸ”₯Kherson
Russia started shelling the recently liberated right (West) bank of the Dnipro River, including Kherson city. At least one person was killed and several wounded. Regardless of the Russian statements of Kherson being β€œa Russian city” they will continue to use artillery to shell the civilians & critical infrastructure in Kherson, Nikopol, and Zaporizhzhia just like they did with Mykolaiv.

πŸ”₯Melitopol
Russian sources mention a counteroffensive of Ukrainian troops in the Melitopol direction. Yet, these are just some tactical maneuvers and responses to the Russian attempt to attack Huliaypole.

πŸ”₯Palvovka & Vuhledar
Clashes between Ukrainian and Russian forces continue. No major changes.

πŸ”₯Bahmut & Mariinka
Fighting between Ukrainian and Russian forces continues. No major changes.
(Feygin shared the photo from Bahmut on his Telegram channel).

πŸ”₯Svatove & Kreminna
Russian sources report the loss of several settlements to the Ukrainian troops. The Ukrainian Staff General is still to confirm this information.

πŸ”₯Sumy, Chernigiv, Kharkiv
Russia shells Ukrainian territory of Sumy, Chernigiv and the north of Kharkiv region from Russian territory.

πŸ”₯Winter evacuation from Kherson
Ukrainian officials urge the inhabitants of Kherson to evacuate for the Winter months to the central regions of Ukraine. The recommendation is due to the shelling of the Kherson region by Russia which puts the civilians in danger.
Moreover, when Russia was fleeing the right bank of Dnipro River, they destroyed all key civilian energy and heating infrastructure.
Many buildings were mined, the demining efforts are still underway, and, in some cases, mine clearance is not possible & some mines/bombs will need to be detonated on site.

πŸ”₯Belarus & ISW
Institute of Study of War (ISW) suggests that Belarus may join the war. While Russia is training their mobilized in Belarus to send them then to Donetsk, Lugansk regions. The Belarusian Army refused to join the war in February when everyone believed in a swift occupation of Kyiv. So, it’s hard to believe that they will finally join now when it’s already clear that Russia has lost the war that it started.
After the liberation of Kherson by Ukrainian forces, Putin has a big domestic problem – no one believes that he can achieve military success in this war. With a frontline of more than 1000km, Russia is attempting to portray its conquest of a building in Pesky (a small village) as a major military success.
Thus, to show force to the domestic audience, Russia is indeed considering a second attempt to invade Sumy or to try and cut Ukrainian supply lines in Volyn region. Even if they move forward with this plan, it will take them some time to prepare the invasion force.

πŸ”₯Russian mobilization
Russia claims to have mobilized 300k men, yet the real number is probably 243k. While Russia would like to declare full mobilization, they lack equipment, weapons and even food for all the mobilized. (Russia also lacks competent officers to command the mobilized). The first mobiks were already seen at the frontline with Iranian bulletproof vests, helmets & clothes, as Russia doesn’t have enough equipment of their own.

πŸ”₯Israel
Israel has stated that they cannot allow the escalation, such as Iran supplying Russia with ballistic missiles – β€œIran must be stopped before this happens”. This doesn’t mean that Israel will supply Ukraine with high-precision missiles but is an improvement from the previous neutral statements from Israel.

πŸ”₯Iran
Iran is under diplomatic pressure but will continue to collaborate with Russia. Iran will probably establish a drone production facility on Russian territory and may still transfer the ballistic missiles to Russia. Yet the technical characteristics of these missiles are still a big unknown.

πŸ”₯Peskov & war crimes
Peskov claims that Russia will investigate the alleged crimes against Russian soldiers to find the β€œculprits”. We are still to see Russia conduct a single investigation or prosecute the proven Russian war criminals responsible for the shooting of civilians, Ukrainian POWs, castration of a Ukrainian POW, and many other crimes.

πŸ”₯Turkey, Kurds, the US & Russia
Turkey is preparing a land operation against Kurds in Syria & Iraq citing Russia not withholding their military & diplomatic duties in the region. This shows Putin losing influence in the Middle East, with Erdogan negotiating with the US rather than considering PutinΒ΄s opinion.

πŸ”₯Russia begging for negotiations & the West
Peskov declared that the Russian Federation will try and achieve its objectives but now cites diplomatic means. So, Russia has changed its rhetoric from February – the β€œnazis & drug addicts” in Kyiv transformed into β€œdear partners” and the military take-over of Ukraine became β€œdiplomatic negotiations”. Did something happen to the Russian military β€œmight”?
The West continues the military aid to Ukraine, as shown by the recent NATO declaration, and Ukrainian conditions of negotiations remain the same – foremost, the removal of all Russian troops from all Ukrainian territories.

πŸ”₯The West is preparing for the post-Putin world
Several resolutions and national & EU parliaments declared Russia a terrorist state & state sponsor of terrorism, and now the calls for a tribunal for the Russian war criminals are all preparations for the post-Putin world. In the new security construct for the West, Russia will be ostracized, sanctioned, and pressured to give up its nuclear arsenal.
The de-militarization & de-nuclearization of Russia may be preferable for the new, post-Putin, Russian government to avoid internal conflicts and civil war.

πŸ”₯Putin & astrology
The Kremlin, including Putin, increase their interest & reliance on astrology and shamanism. This demonstrates an increase in desperation & anxiety of the Kremlin, just like it was with Hitler in his last months in the bunker.
Arestovych is very pleased with the almost sabotage-like incompetence of the self-proclaimed KremlinΒ΄s astrologists.

MMBaranova · 22/11/2022 18:56

Today's Russian side Rybar video. It's only at 1:25 (of 1:50) that any claimed offensive from the Russian forces is shown.

vk.com/video-72856084_456245126

MMBaranova · 22/11/2022 19:00

Correction: posted today, refers to yesterday, 21st.

Other maps today show alleged shifts of Ukrainian units from north of Kherson to the eastern theatre.

Natsku · 22/11/2022 19:25

The Kremlin, including Putin, increase their interest & reliance on astrology and shamanism. This demonstrates an increase in desperation & anxiety of the Kremlin, just like it was with Hitler in his last months in the bunker.

Fascinating similarity

BlessMyCottonSocks · 22/11/2022 20:50

Natsku · 22/11/2022 19:25

The Kremlin, including Putin, increase their interest & reliance on astrology and shamanism. This demonstrates an increase in desperation & anxiety of the Kremlin, just like it was with Hitler in his last months in the bunker.

Fascinating similarity

That’s terrifying.

OwlsDance · 22/11/2022 22:31

This is a funny thread. Love Blackadder reference πŸ˜‚

twitter.com/AndrewPerpetua/status/1594754722950529024?t=eb6lGifBE8XAK9M6OLUCJQ&s=19

DesdamonasHandkerchief · 22/11/2022 22:40

Interview with the rather fab Lawrence Freedman:

Putin's massive mistake: Lawrence* Freedman on Ukraine and the lessons of history*
Putin made bad decisions based on "total misapprehension," says military expert. Now the whole world pays the price

www.salon.com/2022/11/21/putins-massive-mistake-lawrence-freedman-on-ukraine-and-the-lessons-of-history/

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 22/11/2022 22:42

Defense of Ukraine
@DefenceU
Β·
1h
Ukraine government organization
russian Orthodox activists are calling for Harry Potter to be banned, accusing jk_rowling of promoting satanism.
In fact, πŸ‡·πŸ‡Ί intelligence has learned about the sale of a large quantity of flying "brooms" by the UK to Ukraine, as early as the start of the Christmas holidays.

Igotjelly · 23/11/2022 06:59

UK has announced they’ll be sending helicopters to Ukraine for the first time.

Swipe left for the next trending thread