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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The Bluestocking, a unique location for daughters and sisters of earth, frost, feathers, fur, scales and spines

1000 replies

AsWithGlad · 04/09/2026 19:22

Welcome to The Bluestocking, the best (perhaps only) online women's pub. Nothing in the food or drink can harm you, everything is served by a very enthusiastic crew of gerbils, who enjoy doing this, and any curious menfolk are welcome at the Staunch Ally down the road.

Previous thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/feminism/5568996-the-bluestocking-pub-where-we-continue-to-read-about-gerbils-nobly-and-bravely-working-undercover-in-the-fen?page=1

The Bluestocking Pub, where we continue to read about gerbils nobly and bravely working undercover in the Fen. | Mumsnet

Welcome to The Bluestocking, the best (perhaps only) online women's pub. Nothing in the food or drink can harm you, everything is served by a very ent...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/feminism/5568996-the-bluestocking-pub-where-we-continue-to-read-about-gerbils-nobly-and-bravely-working-undercover-in-the-fen?page=1

OP posts:
Thread gallery
158
MarieDeGournay · 20/09/2026 12:30

Chersfrozenface · 20/09/2026 12:17

The consensus seems to be that sailing a boat requires a sail.

The verbs for controlling the speed and direction of a boat powered by a motor/engine seem to be steering, helming or piloting.

Sailing would seem to require a sailSmile
But would Magpie's friend have to say he's on a steering, helming or piloting holiday?
He could say 'I'm on a boating holiday', couldn't he? and maybe even I'm boating this weekend'.
But no, not 'sailing'.

We have a couple of Pirates here at the Bluey who might like to visit him to convince him of the errrrrorrrrrrr of his ways😃

Magpiecomplex · 20/09/2026 12:33

MarieDeGournay · 20/09/2026 12:30

Sailing would seem to require a sailSmile
But would Magpie's friend have to say he's on a steering, helming or piloting holiday?
He could say 'I'm on a boating holiday', couldn't he? and maybe even I'm boating this weekend'.
But no, not 'sailing'.

We have a couple of Pirates here at the Bluey who might like to visit him to convince him of the errrrrorrrrrrr of his ways😃

Oh, I definitely want Swashy and her galleon to rock up on the Norfolk Broads to explain the difference. Preferably with the Virago and the Serious Scandinavians in their longship also in attendance.

Magpiecomplex · 20/09/2026 12:40

Same friend also didn't know until recently that plow is not the British spelling. I understand the desire to simplify American English spellings, but I think plow was a failure - every other four letter word that starts with a consonant and ends in low is pronounced the same way, and none of them rhyme with plough. Although admittedly plough doesn't rhyme with cough or enough or thorough.

PastaAllaNorma · 20/09/2026 13:14

Good afternoon all! A lovely breezy day for the post-holiday washing, which is pegged out on the washing lines.

MrPasta wanted to mow the grass but the compost bin is full so he couldn't dispose of the clippings.
So he wanted to turn the compost to start a new bin, but the last year's compost has a couple of barrows worth of good compost still in it.
So he wanted to barrow that onto a raised bed, but they all still had things growing, except the alliums bed.
So I've dug up all the shallots now, scrubbed them, used some to prep a shallot tarte tatin for dinner tonight and weeded the bed in preparation for top dressing it. There were over 50 shallots, which is a tolerable amount for such a dry summer.

With all that and the loads of washing, I could do with a rest. I'm having a Productivity Beer in the sunshine and admiring the mass of cosmos that have taken over the garden while we've been in Spain

(A Guinness Zero: so-called because I can drink one at lunchtime and still be productive in the afternoon)

Marie, I loved the Ode To Batshit Rufus. Just perfect.

NotAtMyAge · 20/09/2026 13:18

Magpiecomplex · 20/09/2026 12:40

Same friend also didn't know until recently that plow is not the British spelling. I understand the desire to simplify American English spellings, but I think plow was a failure - every other four letter word that starts with a consonant and ends in low is pronounced the same way, and none of them rhyme with plough. Although admittedly plough doesn't rhyme with cough or enough or thorough.

A perfect example of why my long-time German friend loved English grammar for its simplicity, but hated English spelling for its irrationality. 😁

JanesLittleGirl · 20/09/2026 13:20

There wouldn't be any sailors in His Majesty's Pie and Gravy if you can only sail a vessel that has sails.

Magpiecomplex · 20/09/2026 13:33

JanesLittleGirl · 20/09/2026 13:20

There wouldn't be any sailors in His Majesty's Pie and Gravy if you can only sail a vessel that has sails.

That's a good point. They do still have one ship with sails, the Victory is still considered part of the fleet, I believe.

Magpiecomplex · 20/09/2026 13:57

Magpiecomplex · 20/09/2026 13:33

That's a good point. They do still have one ship with sails, the Victory is still considered part of the fleet, I believe.

That sent me down a rabbit hole about the restoration of the Victory. Fascinating stuff. Apparently they're spending millions of pounds on researching deathwatch beetle so they can better deal with the population living in the ship.

JanesLittleGirl · 20/09/2026 14:04

Magpiecomplex · 20/09/2026 13:33

That's a good point. They do still have one ship with sails, the Victory is still considered part of the fleet, I believe.

Close. She used to have sails but her current status is "Sails: fitted for not with".

The Bluestocking, a unique location for daughters and sisters of earth, frost, feathers, fur, scales and spines
Magpiecomplex · 20/09/2026 14:11

JanesLittleGirl · 20/09/2026 14:04

Close. She used to have sails but her current status is "Sails: fitted for not with".

Fair enough. Although considering she's firmly attached to the drydock, even if she had the sails fitted she couldn't go anywhere!

JanesLittleGirl · 20/09/2026 15:15

Magpiecomplex · 20/09/2026 14:51

@JanesLittleGirl the Jane in your username wouldn't happen to be https://www.janes.com/ would it? 😉

No, that's my Mum. I'm just her little girl.

EmpressaurusKitty · 20/09/2026 15:46

This morning I visited Alexander Pope’s Grotto, which he created in the 1720s to give himself a tunnel from his house in Twickenham to his garden under a public road. Apparently friends of his from all over the world sent rocks, minerals, crystals & even copper & tin to be included in the walls.

I was really impressed with what the guide told us about Pope, too - he was a Catholic at a time when Catholics were heavily restricted, he was 4ft6 and had tuberculosis of the spine, and with all these disadvantages he taught himself several languages, translated the Iliad & the Odyssey, & became a famous writer.

(No stained glass though).

The Bluestocking, a unique location for daughters and sisters of earth, frost, feathers, fur, scales and spines
The Bluestocking, a unique location for daughters and sisters of earth, frost, feathers, fur, scales and spines
The Bluestocking, a unique location for daughters and sisters of earth, frost, feathers, fur, scales and spines
The Bluestocking, a unique location for daughters and sisters of earth, frost, feathers, fur, scales and spines
AsWithGlad · 20/09/2026 16:59

@Chickadeeinme, @DauntlessDamson , @EdithStourton , @EmpressaurusKitty , @Chersfrozenface , @beeakoala , @MyrtleLion, @RumNotRun @AngleofRepose @DeanElderberry , @Swashbuckled , @ifIwerenotanandroid thank you for your comments, all appreciated.

@MarieDeGournay wrote
Stellar company, you could dine out for months on 'Naomi Cunningham said hello to me'
There's a thought!

Thank you for your encouragement, Bluestocking dwellers, but I didn't try to sneak myself into their lecture after all. Still too weary after my wonderful evening.

OP posts:
AsWithGlad · 20/09/2026 17:07

MyrtleLion · 19/09/2026 10:09

How lovely, Glad! I think her name is Akua Reindorf. I met her at a fundraiser once. She is very lovely. I’m so impressed you saw Naomi too. What an illustrious bunch!

Edited

You are absolutely right, Myrtle, and I wrote it twice, too.

In my very weak defence I'd say that I did that only because I was concentrating on spelling her surname correctly. It differs by only one letter from the surname of quite a few people I know, one of whom is a close relative by marriage. 🙄

OP posts:
MyrtleLion · 20/09/2026 17:53

Magpiecomplex · 20/09/2026 13:33

That's a good point. They do still have one ship with sails, the Victory is still considered part of the fleet, I believe.

Had dinner on Victory in Nelson's cabin. Very lovely.

And there are some sails in the hold, furled.

Magpiecomplex · 20/09/2026 17:54

MyrtleLion · 20/09/2026 17:53

Had dinner on Victory in Nelson's cabin. Very lovely.

And there are some sails in the hold, furled.

Edited

Not with Nelson, one assumes. 😆

MyrtleLion · 20/09/2026 17:58

48. The Spreadsheet

In which everyone agrees St David’s is lovely…

Before anyone could comment on Fenella Burnish adding the Margrave’s mark to the replica window, @Chickadeeinme arrived from St David’s with Gwenllian and Glamorgan.

“There’s a mark,” said Chickadee, handing the camera to Glossy at the darkroom door.

@AngleofRepose turned back a page. “Where?”

“The Lady Chapel, east window. Kempe and Co, 1924. There’s a Virgin and Child in the middle, angels with instruments round them, and the four Evangelists. The Margrave’s mark is in the bottom border under the Virgin.”

“There’s a wheatsheaf as well,” said Glamorgan. “In the corner of the glass, with a little black tower on it. I photographed it nine times.”

“That’s the glazier’s signature,” said Chickadee. “I told her so after the fourth.”

“I wanted to be sure.”

Angle wrote St David’s. Lady Chapel, east window. Kempe and Co, 1924. Margrave’s mark under the Virgin and Child.

“And was it Welsh Wales?” asked Girdle.

“It was not,” said Gwenllian.

“It is English Wales,” said Glamorgan. “The woman in the tea shop was from Reigate. The verger was from Barnsley. There was a man selling ice cream who said bore da to everybody, and he was from Swindon.”

“But lovely,” said Gwenllian, “and expensive.”

“Yes, expensive and very lovely,” continued Glamorgan. “You come down a hill. They built the whole cathedral in a dip, so you can’t see it until you’re nearly standing on the roof. And the city is built of sandstone, and the colour changes with the light. It was almost purple when we were there.”

“Lovely,” said Gwenllian again.

Angle picked up the data stick Griffin had given her and pushed it into the side of her laptop. @Boiledbeetle came and stood at her elbow.

Angle opened the file and the Stock tab from the workshop’s spreadsheet appeared on screen. She clicked along the tabs on the bottom. Glass by colour, Glass by size, Lead, Paint, Kiln Bookings, Stamps, Clients, Courier, Dispatch, and a long row of others after those.

“All of that in one spreadsheet,” said Boiledbeetle. “It should really be a database.”

“It belongs to a glazier,” said @Hedgehogforshort. “I don’t think she understands IT.”

“Even so.”

Angle went to the Dispatch tab, found FB0417 in blue, and clicked it. The grey sheet came up with the box in the middle. She turned to the page in her notebook and typed the password one character at a time with one finger, and the sheet opened.

“That’s it,” said Griffin. “That’s what I read.”

The top of the spreadsheet was almost exactly as Griffin had reported it. The Winchester row was in amber, marked In Progress, but the four rows in red beneath Winchester had disappeared. Then there were four more amber rows as before. Norwich, Carlisle, St David’s and Sainte-Chapelle. But these were now marked as Dispatched, with Consignee 3859 rather than Returned. Below that the rows turned green.

“Keep going,” said Griffin. “I never got to the bottom.”

Angle scrolled down slowly reading the location and year in every row. The green rows ran in descending chronological order from 2025, through 2021 until 2010 when a single row for Westminster Abbey appeared in black, with an empty status column. Then the rows became green again until 2000 when everything after that turned black. Each of these rows read Delivered. Angle read, Glasgow, 1958, Eve window. Twenty-one lines for Liverpool 1951. Occasionally a row with an empty status appeared, and then in 1912 Delivered became Historic and stayed Historic.

Gasket had refilled the teapot more than once and Angle continued to scroll.

“The Clerk’s Companion to Office Machinery,” said Grisaille, from something written down, “states that a spreadsheet cannot hold more than two hundred and fifty-six rows.”

“Thank you, Grisaille,” said Angle, at row 611.

The years went on running backwards, until the screen would not scroll any further.

“It stops,” said Griffin.

The last row was dated 1763. Historic.

“George the Third,” said @inkymoose. “Thirteen years before the American Declaration of Independence.”

“What have we uncovered?” asked Hedgehog. “This was just five windows and a yacht a few months ago.”

“Steady,” said Angle. “We don’t really know what we’re looking at.”

“Then let’s look for what we do know,” said Boiledbeetle. “Press Control and F together, then type the name of the first cathedral where we found a mark. Then keep going.”

Angle opened her notebook to the master list of Margrave marks and searched each cathedral as she went. Durham, 2021, Delivered. Ripon was the same. She had spotted Glasgow and Liverpool as she was scrolling, then she saw Cumbrae, Gabriel, Delivered. Truro, Joan of Arc, Delivered. York, the Five Sisters, Historic. Gloucester and Tintagel, Delivered.

“Every Margrave mark we have found is written in this spreadsheet,” said @NotAtMyAge. “We spent weeks up ladders while Fenella Burnish already had them all in a list.”

https://myrtlelion.substack.com/p/48-the-spreadsheet

The Bluestocking, a unique location for daughters and sisters of earth, frost, feathers, fur, scales and spines
MyrtleLion · 20/09/2026 18:02

Magpiecomplex · 20/09/2026 17:54

Not with Nelson, one assumes. 😆

No, 3 or 4 very senior Navy types, served by very young ratings. And about ten guests I think. There was a photo but I donated it to the archives of the organisation I was working for at the time. I should have taken a copy...

Magpiecomplex · 20/09/2026 18:40

MyrtleLion · 20/09/2026 17:58

48. The Spreadsheet

In which everyone agrees St David’s is lovely…

Before anyone could comment on Fenella Burnish adding the Margrave’s mark to the replica window, @Chickadeeinme arrived from St David’s with Gwenllian and Glamorgan.

“There’s a mark,” said Chickadee, handing the camera to Glossy at the darkroom door.

@AngleofRepose turned back a page. “Where?”

“The Lady Chapel, east window. Kempe and Co, 1924. There’s a Virgin and Child in the middle, angels with instruments round them, and the four Evangelists. The Margrave’s mark is in the bottom border under the Virgin.”

“There’s a wheatsheaf as well,” said Glamorgan. “In the corner of the glass, with a little black tower on it. I photographed it nine times.”

“That’s the glazier’s signature,” said Chickadee. “I told her so after the fourth.”

“I wanted to be sure.”

Angle wrote St David’s. Lady Chapel, east window. Kempe and Co, 1924. Margrave’s mark under the Virgin and Child.

“And was it Welsh Wales?” asked Girdle.

“It was not,” said Gwenllian.

“It is English Wales,” said Glamorgan. “The woman in the tea shop was from Reigate. The verger was from Barnsley. There was a man selling ice cream who said bore da to everybody, and he was from Swindon.”

“But lovely,” said Gwenllian, “and expensive.”

“Yes, expensive and very lovely,” continued Glamorgan. “You come down a hill. They built the whole cathedral in a dip, so you can’t see it until you’re nearly standing on the roof. And the city is built of sandstone, and the colour changes with the light. It was almost purple when we were there.”

“Lovely,” said Gwenllian again.

Angle picked up the data stick Griffin had given her and pushed it into the side of her laptop. @Boiledbeetle came and stood at her elbow.

Angle opened the file and the Stock tab from the workshop’s spreadsheet appeared on screen. She clicked along the tabs on the bottom. Glass by colour, Glass by size, Lead, Paint, Kiln Bookings, Stamps, Clients, Courier, Dispatch, and a long row of others after those.

“All of that in one spreadsheet,” said Boiledbeetle. “It should really be a database.”

“It belongs to a glazier,” said @Hedgehogforshort. “I don’t think she understands IT.”

“Even so.”

Angle went to the Dispatch tab, found FB0417 in blue, and clicked it. The grey sheet came up with the box in the middle. She turned to the page in her notebook and typed the password one character at a time with one finger, and the sheet opened.

“That’s it,” said Griffin. “That’s what I read.”

The top of the spreadsheet was almost exactly as Griffin had reported it. The Winchester row was in amber, marked In Progress, but the four rows in red beneath Winchester had disappeared. Then there were four more amber rows as before. Norwich, Carlisle, St David’s and Sainte-Chapelle. But these were now marked as Dispatched, with Consignee 3859 rather than Returned. Below that the rows turned green.

“Keep going,” said Griffin. “I never got to the bottom.”

Angle scrolled down slowly reading the location and year in every row. The green rows ran in descending chronological order from 2025, through 2021 until 2010 when a single row for Westminster Abbey appeared in black, with an empty status column. Then the rows became green again until 2000 when everything after that turned black. Each of these rows read Delivered. Angle read, Glasgow, 1958, Eve window. Twenty-one lines for Liverpool 1951. Occasionally a row with an empty status appeared, and then in 1912 Delivered became Historic and stayed Historic.

Gasket had refilled the teapot more than once and Angle continued to scroll.

“The Clerk’s Companion to Office Machinery,” said Grisaille, from something written down, “states that a spreadsheet cannot hold more than two hundred and fifty-six rows.”

“Thank you, Grisaille,” said Angle, at row 611.

The years went on running backwards, until the screen would not scroll any further.

“It stops,” said Griffin.

The last row was dated 1763. Historic.

“George the Third,” said @inkymoose. “Thirteen years before the American Declaration of Independence.”

“What have we uncovered?” asked Hedgehog. “This was just five windows and a yacht a few months ago.”

“Steady,” said Angle. “We don’t really know what we’re looking at.”

“Then let’s look for what we do know,” said Boiledbeetle. “Press Control and F together, then type the name of the first cathedral where we found a mark. Then keep going.”

Angle opened her notebook to the master list of Margrave marks and searched each cathedral as she went. Durham, 2021, Delivered. Ripon was the same. She had spotted Glasgow and Liverpool as she was scrolling, then she saw Cumbrae, Gabriel, Delivered. Truro, Joan of Arc, Delivered. York, the Five Sisters, Historic. Gloucester and Tintagel, Delivered.

“Every Margrave mark we have found is written in this spreadsheet,” said @NotAtMyAge. “We spent weeks up ladders while Fenella Burnish already had them all in a list.”

https://myrtlelion.substack.com/p/48-the-spreadsheet

Edited

I have so many photos of St David's cathedral in its many colourful moods. We went on holiday to Pembrokeshire for many years. I can't remember which of the Bluey patrons I might well have met on Newgale beach, but there's definitely at least one!

EdithStourton · 20/09/2026 19:20

Nelson is one of those people I'd love to have to dinner. Quite an amazing personality.

Marie, I love the poem about (almost) Batshit. Being on the wrong side of a door. Being underfoot. Looking cute and loyal whilst being stunningly stupid.

B&B were left behind with DH today because I went out without them. I came home smelling of Other People's Dogs, which they found interesting but suspect. I have had lots of fresh air and am knackered.

RumNotRun · 20/09/2026 20:01

That fact about St David's Cathedral being built in a dip reminded me of Llandaff Cathedral here in Cardiff. Apparently it has one of the finest collections of stained glass amongst Welsh cathedrals. I have been there but didn't notice any marks on any of the glass. It was for a gin and rum festival though so I may have been a bit tipsy.

It's a lovely building and one of the oldest sites for a cathedral. I'm not a fan of the modern (well 1950s) Christ in Majesty that they have there though.

The Bluestocking, a unique location for daughters and sisters of earth, frost, feathers, fur, scales and spines
The Bluestocking, a unique location for daughters and sisters of earth, frost, feathers, fur, scales and spines
ErrolTheDragon · 20/09/2026 20:24

Magpiecomplex · 20/09/2026 12:04

Point of etymology for the pedants here. If you were in charge of a boat with a diesel engine and no sail, could you be described as "sailing" it? I'm having a disagreement with a friend who claims he is sailing, but I maintain he can't be, because no sail.

I agree, sailing requires a sail and wind.
Unfortunately using this term when you’re driving a boat with an engine has become ubiquitous so I fear the ship may have sailed on this one.

Chickadeeinme · 20/09/2026 21:21

Thanks for having me visit St.David’s again, @MyrtleLion :-). I’m looking forward to my return visit to north Wales. I’m sure it’s changed a bit since I was last there, which was in 1963.

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