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The Bluestocking, a unique location for daughters and sisters of earth, frost, feathers, fur, scales and spines

1000 replies

AsWithGlad · 04/09/2026 19:22

Welcome to The Bluestocking, the best (perhaps only) online women's pub. Nothing in the food or drink can harm you, everything is served by a very enthusiastic crew of gerbils, who enjoy doing this, and any curious menfolk are welcome at the Staunch Ally down the road.

Previous thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/feminism/5568996-the-bluestocking-pub-where-we-continue-to-read-about-gerbils-nobly-and-bravely-working-undercover-in-the-fen?page=1

The Bluestocking Pub, where we continue to read about gerbils nobly and bravely working undercover in the Fen. | Mumsnet

Welcome to The Bluestocking, the best (perhaps only) online women's pub. Nothing in the food or drink can harm you, everything is served by a very ent...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/feminism/5568996-the-bluestocking-pub-where-we-continue-to-read-about-gerbils-nobly-and-bravely-working-undercover-in-the-fen?page=1

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158
AngleofRepose · 17/09/2026 14:47

MyrtleLion · 17/09/2026 12:54

My favourite line in Welsh is Dwy'n hoffi coffi. I like coffee. NB Dwy'n means I am (literally I am liking coffee), but Dw i'n is usually taught because Dwy'n is feminine and it would be terrible to have the feminine as the default...

I'm next to useless at written Welsh, and I never got the hang of the mutations unless they were ones that sounded correct and easy to me.

Since most of my Welsh was picked up from friends, I leaned into the "familiar" rather than the "formal" although my classes were taught in "correct" Welsh.

Your coffee example reminded me:

(apologies for dreadful spelling)

Dych i'n eisiau cwpanaid o goffi? (or Ydych chi'n)
Would you (formal) like a cup of coffee?

Ti'n eisiau panad o goffi?
(familiar "you" and what I usually heard being said)

Sh'panad?
(how I say it because that's how my friends said it!)😝And it works for both coffee and tea, but if you just say "Sh'panad" they'll assume you mean tea because, well, it is Wales...

AngleofRepose · 17/09/2026 14:51

Chickadeeinme · 17/09/2026 12:41

Our plan is to visit the castles at Conwy and Caernarfon, and the Blaenau Ffestiniog railway, which DH is interested in.

I'm ashamed to say I have only been to Caernarfon once and I've never on the Blaenau Ffestiniog railway...

(but I'm also the one who spent nearly 40 years in Wales and visited Ireland for the very first time only in 2023...)

oh the Shame.

AngleofRepose · 17/09/2026 15:03

@EdithStourton I learned a bit of Polish 'way back when I did a tour of some of the major cities in Eastern Europe (the early 90s I think) but I've forgotten all of it now. I do remember the word for "thank you" was quite similar in Polish and Czech. Not so in Hungarian, which is Magyar and, apparently, closer in language grouping to Finnish!??

Chickadeeinme · 17/09/2026 15:03

@AngleofRepose - I lived in England from being age 5 to 52 and I've never been to Ireland either. I'd rather like to go though, but not this year.

DauntlessDamson · 17/09/2026 16:08

I used to go to North Wales quite often when I lived in Cheshire, though it's a bit far for a day trip these days. My favourite place in the late Spring (although it is lovely all year round) was to Bodnant Gardens, which is not far from Conwy and has a spectacular laburnum arch, a ravine full of rhododendrons and sweeping views toward Snowdonia. I also love the Welsh Highland Railway - although it's only about 25 miles long it passes through some beautiful scenery, including the Aberglaslyn Pass. I used to understand a little Welsh, courtesy of a friend who originally came from Anglesey but haven't heard it used for a long time and never managed to speak more than a few words.

ErrolTheDragon · 17/09/2026 16:30

Conwy is a lovely town imo, we stayed near there last year. It’s a walled town, and most of the new developments are over the Llandudno side of the river so it’s retained its charm. Apart from the castle the is a very interesting and quite unique Elizabethan town house. We got Cadw membership which we got full value from between those and various other castles in the area, and it’s only half the price of English Heritage. Bodnant is very lovely.

Chickadeeinme · 17/09/2026 16:46

Ooh thanks @ErrolTheDragon - I didn't know those details about Conwy. We're actually staying outside Conwy over towards Llandudno, but obviously near enough to visit. I like the sound of the Elizabethan town house. I don't think Cadw membership would be worth it for us as we're there for such a short time and only two or three opportunities to visit (assuming the Elizabethan town house is also part of Cadw).

MarieDeGournay · 17/09/2026 18:06

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 17/09/2026 12:11

I have been doing Welsh on duolingo, @Magpiecomplex - alongside German, Dutch and Latin - I focus on one language for a while, and at the moment, it’s Latin. I love seeing words that are clearly the root of English words. But I’m not sure being able to say that the weasel runs in the marketplace is going to be particularly useful in daily life! 😂

' the weasel runs in the marketplace' - not very useful
'the gerbils run the Bluestocking' - very useful😁

Being fascinated by words, etymology, etc, I wish I had learnt Latin at school, and Greek would have been a bonus,
But quite a bit of my schooling was pre-Vatican Council, we learnt lots of hymns in Latin, including the entire Mass of the Angels [seeing how much of it we can still sing is a standard time-filler on long car journeys for Irish Catholics of my vintageSmile]
so I 'get' a lot of Latin derivations.
And a couple of Greek ones.
And Hebrew forms the plural by adding -im, as in seraphim and cherubim.

It's amazing how absorbent a child's mind is!

Magpiecomplex · 17/09/2026 18:11

Oh, is that where the -im plural comes from?! I've always sort of wondered, it's not a common plural ending in English!

MarieDeGournay · 17/09/2026 18:23

When I lived in London I used to take the 'Mail boat' home to Ireland, and I loved the north Wales coast. I used to promise myself that when I retired to Ireland, I'd take the ferry from Dun Laoghaire over to Holyhead and jump on the train and get off at various little stations to explore the area.

Alas, they stopped the historic DL to Euston 'Irish Mail' service, the iconoclastic so-and-sos😡 - which had been running continuously from 1848 until 2002. Bastards😡

There is a ferry that runs from Dublin Port to Holyhead - not very foot-passenger friendly, unlike the lovely DL port, and I don't think it links well with the trains any more.

Otherwise, I'd be over to Conwy in a flash😃

Footnote: the Irish Mail used to carry a watch set to London time, so Ireland would be on 'proper' British time. A ball on a specific building in Dublin, The Ballast Office [since demolished I'm afraid] was set to London time, and dropped at 1pm GMT exactly, which was 25 minutes... ahead? I thinkConfused of Irish time.
Businesses and the public could set their watches to 'London time' accordingly.
Leopold Bloom refers to the Ballast Office timeball falling in Ulysses.

MarieDeGournay · 17/09/2026 18:27

Magpiecomplex · 17/09/2026 18:11

Oh, is that where the -im plural comes from?! I've always sort of wondered, it's not a common plural ending in English!

Smile That's pretty much all I know about Hebrew - they may well have other ways of forming plurals as well, like English has, but the -im that give us 'Seraphim and Cherubim, one unceasing chorus raising' is the only one I know.
EdithStourton · 17/09/2026 18:43

MarieDeGournay · 17/09/2026 18:27

Smile That's pretty much all I know about Hebrew - they may well have other ways of forming plurals as well, like English has, but the -im that give us 'Seraphim and Cherubim, one unceasing chorus raising' is the only one I know.

I think the only other plural ending in Hebrew is 'ot' (modern Hebrew - it's a bit different in some Jewish communities) which is the female plural. If the word ends in a consonant, 'ot' goes on the end; if it ends with 'a' or 'ah', you lop that off before adding the 'ot'.

So Sukkot, the Feast of Tabernacles or Feast of Booths in English, is the plural of Sukkah, 'booth' (basically a hut with a rather dubious roof of foliage).

The Sabbath also take the female plural => Shabbatot.
Matzah, the unleavened bread eaten at Passover => matzot

MarieDeGournay · 17/09/2026 18:48

EdithStourton · 17/09/2026 18:43

I think the only other plural ending in Hebrew is 'ot' (modern Hebrew - it's a bit different in some Jewish communities) which is the female plural. If the word ends in a consonant, 'ot' goes on the end; if it ends with 'a' or 'ah', you lop that off before adding the 'ot'.

So Sukkot, the Feast of Tabernacles or Feast of Booths in English, is the plural of Sukkah, 'booth' (basically a hut with a rather dubious roof of foliage).

The Sabbath also take the female plural => Shabbatot.
Matzah, the unleavened bread eaten at Passover => matzot

😍
I💙The Bluestocking, every day a school day. But a lovely oneSmile

Hedgehogforshort · 17/09/2026 20:11

On the language front, i have often wondered if the Gaelic languages survived and were not “corrupted” because they were out of the reach of the Romans?

and I wonder what the language spoken in the various kingdoms now known as England were.

beeakoala · 17/09/2026 20:36

As a child, living near London, I used to stay with my cousin in Swansea a lot; hence my love of Mumbles and the Gower. She had to learn Welsh in school but wasn't interested in it and I had to learn French. So we tried to teach each other the other language through our regular letters. Sadly, the only Welsh that I actually managed to remember was, and is still, fy cadeirydd yw wedi torri. It means my chair is broken. Surprisingly, I've never had the need to use it!

MyrtleLion · 17/09/2026 20:43

45. Business As Usual

In which the gerbils continue their work…

Fenella arrived at Graphic’s bench as Graphic finished setting out her pencils. “Leave those,” she said. “Today you are leading the window that came in.”

She returned to her bench where Gemma Glasswing’s stained glass replica lay flat in its frame, every piece of glass in place and straw where the lead should be. On a board next to it Fenella had set out came in lengths, a lead knife and a tin of horseshoe nails.

Graphic looked at the woman in deep water blue, at the three keys and the purse, and at the straw. Then she picked up the first length of came.

Halcyon was still in the office, and Gimbal was writing out the rest of the list of dies, so Griffin sat down at the laptop. She opened the spreadsheet at the Stock tab and began to work through the stocklist as usual. Then, with the Stock tab still open, she undid the button on her inside pocket and took out the data stick.

As instructed, she inserted it into the laptop. Then clicked on File, Save as, then Browse. On the left-hand side was a list of folders and files and a long way down, a drive called Boily, with the letter D in brackets after it. She clicked it, and clicked Save, and a little bar went across and was gone. She pulled the stick out, put it back in her pocket and did the button up over it. Nobody looked round. Griffin returned to the Stock tab again and went back to work.

At the Stamps box, Gimbal continued writing the die numbers and what the die was, up through the hundreds, one line each in pencil. A little before noon she wrote down the details of die 200 and put the pencil down. The list was finished properly.

In the break room at lunch Gimbal waited until both the others had sat down. “Compartment 23 is empty,” she said. “And 106.”

Griffin stopped with her sandwich halfway to her mouth. “Empty how?”

“Bare wood. The number on the bottom and nothing in the compartment. I listed all the stamps from 1 to 200 and those two were not there.” Gimbal kept her voice low, though the door was shut. “I put both of them in myself. Nobody has asked me for either of them since.”

“Which ones are they?” asked Graphic.

“Twenty-three is the old mark. The curve and the tail and the three lines. Reconstruction, it says on the sheet.” Gimbal looked at the door and back again. “And 106 is the Margrave’s mark.”

Nobody said anything for a moment.

“Did you get the spreadsheet?” asked Gimbal.

“Yes.” Griffin put her sandwich down. “Halcyon was in the office all morning and you were writing the stamps list. I saved it to Boily and put it back in my pocket.”

“I’ve been leading Gemma Glasswing’s window,” said Graphic. “Fenella put me on it first thing. Not stamping. Leading, all morning.” She looked at her paw, which had a grey smear down one side. “I’ve done the top half. I’ll probably finish it today.”

The afternoon continued much as the morning had. Graphic went back to leading the glass. Griffin went back to the Stock tab. Gimbal, with the list finished and handed in at the office door, found the broom and swept the workshop from end to end, which it did not need, and then round the benches.

At half past five the three of them had their coats on and were about to leave. Halcyon had already left for the day. Fenella was at her bench with her back to the room.

Gimbal stopped and turned back towards the workshop door, resting her paw on the handle. “The broom,” she said. “I left it by the bench.”

“Leave it,” said Griffin.

“I don’t leave things out,” Gimbal said, pushing the door open. “Wait for me.”

Before she could take a step inside the workshop, Gimbal saw Fenella standing over the freshly leaded window at the bench where Graphic had left it. She had a stamp in one hand and a small hammer in the other.

As Gimbal watched, Fenella turned the first die to the light, the way she checked every stamp before she used it, and Gimbal saw the curve and the tail and the three lines. Fenella placed it on the lead low on the bottom edge and struck it once with the hammer. Then she put down the stamp and picked up another, heavier stamp. She put it on the bottom edge of the lead directly over the first stamp and struck it with the hammer harder than before.

Gimbal took a step backwards, quietly closed the door and went out to the others, and did not say a word.

https://myrtlelion.substack.com/p/45-business-as-usual

The Bluestocking, a unique location for daughters and sisters of earth, frost, feathers, fur, scales and spines
AngleofRepose · 17/09/2026 20:49

Hedgehogforshort · 17/09/2026 20:11

On the language front, i have often wondered if the Gaelic languages survived and were not “corrupted” because they were out of the reach of the Romans?

and I wonder what the language spoken in the various kingdoms now known as England were.

I read something about that recently (about England). I can't now remember the name of the book (about Britain after Roman occupation). As most recent research demonstrates, there is evidence that the period after the Romans left, until about 600AD, retained its legacy of Romano-British /Latin, with Latin used of course in the Church, but also administratively. It didn't just all disappear immediately. So there were people who spoke Romano-British, some who spoke Latin, and many who spoke both. Latin declined at the rate of the decline of the Church, administrative functions, and centers of learning. Romano-British declined as various areas of England were settled or invaded by peoples from the Continent and also Scandinavia.

Some Welsh words are derived from Latin: eglwys from ecclesia, is one that I remember. It does demonstrate a greater impact by the Romans on Wales than previously thought. As far as I know, there was very little to no Roman impact on Ireland until the Church, but I imagine Marie would know a lot more about that!

AngleofRepose · 17/09/2026 20:55

Ohhh, Fenella makes me nervous!

EmpressaurusKitty · 17/09/2026 21:03

I was holding my breath when Griffin saved the spreadsheet.

AngleofRepose · 17/09/2026 21:11

The book I read was one of these:

Britain after Rome: the fall and rise, from 400-1070
Fleming, Robin 2010

An imperial possession: Britain in the Roman Empire, 54 BC-AD 409
Mattingly, D J 2007

Roman and early medieval Wales
Arnold, Christopher J. 2000

The Early church in Wales and the west: recent work in early Christian archaeology, history and place-names
1992

I'm pretty sure it was the last book that had all the etymological information.

EdithStourton · 17/09/2026 21:28

EmpressaurusKitty · 17/09/2026 21:03

I was holding my breath when Griffin saved the spreadsheet.

I began to skim read, and had to go back and make myself read it slowly.

ETA, I agree with Angle. A sort of brooding threat emanates from Fenella.

EdithStourton · 17/09/2026 21:30

Hedgehogforshort · 17/09/2026 20:11

On the language front, i have often wondered if the Gaelic languages survived and were not “corrupted” because they were out of the reach of the Romans?

and I wonder what the language spoken in the various kingdoms now known as England were.

Also out of the reach of the Saxons. The litus Saxonicum and all that.

Boiledbeetle · 17/09/2026 21:33

I'm so far behind my bookmark is still on page 2.

I caught Gubbins earlier unsuccessfully picking the lock on the door to my super secret stash.

Luckily I had just taken delivery of a DYMO Label Maker.

Gubbins has been testing it for me as punishment. She says its way better than the previous model.

The Bluestocking, a unique location for daughters and sisters of earth, frost, feathers, fur, scales and spines
The Bluestocking, a unique location for daughters and sisters of earth, frost, feathers, fur, scales and spines
The Bluestocking, a unique location for daughters and sisters of earth, frost, feathers, fur, scales and spines
The Bluestocking, a unique location for daughters and sisters of earth, frost, feathers, fur, scales and spines
The Bluestocking, a unique location for daughters and sisters of earth, frost, feathers, fur, scales and spines
Boiledbeetle · 17/09/2026 21:33

She also found one of her missing triangles when she was down there.

She's back up to 2 triangles. Oh joy!

The Bluestocking, a unique location for daughters and sisters of earth, frost, feathers, fur, scales and spines
MarieDeGournay · 17/09/2026 21:34

Those books look really interesting, Angle.
It's really interesting how peoples/countries go from one thing to another - it's a few pages in the history books, but must in fact have been gradual and sometimes difficult and conflictual.

I'm not an expert, I just love the history of how people spoke and why it changed.

Hedgey, I think you're right about the absence of Roman influence - they never came to Ireland, except as tourists and traders, so Celtic culture and language survived relatively uncorrupted.
For a while, anyway🙁

There are lots of words of Latin origin, and as Angle says of Welsh, they tend to be associated with the church, including 'eaglais' meaning church.
Then there were some words borrowed from Norman French - 'damhsa' for dance, for instance, 'garsúin' for boy, alongside the older and more common 'buachall'

There's no etymological dictionary of Irish, sadly - maybe just as well for me, as I'd probably spend my entire life with my nose stuck in it😄
.

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