Lactation support conference in Ireland - the quiet part out loud

FFS. Who on earth invited this man to this conference?

Truly Ireland has lost its mind.

Once again it's about the man's feelings. The child doesn't even get mentioned.

Although sunlight I suppose

Sure Dr Englesman, or he might be a pervert.
Indeed, let's get rid of the <might> and say it as it is, the man who wishes to lactate <is> a pervert.
All part of the long march to depathologize transvestic disorder from extreme paraphylia to dysphoria to sexual health category.

I can give them the answer to 'Where does male lactation fit in breastfeeding support networks?'...it doesn't.

I don't think Dr Englesman knows the difference between 'lactation' and 'secretion of chemically/hormonally induced matter' and shouldn't be allowed near any baby or lactating mother.

He's trying to muddy the waters by talking about Cis men, I've never heard of a man wanting to breast feed a baby unless they're a transwoman. Once again someone whose trying to make an abnormal sitution sound reasonable.

Agree. Judging simply from the number of threads on MN, it seems to be the norm that breastfeeding mothers consider expressing milk so that fathers can be involved in feeding.

I was ready to be open minded, thinking of adopters, families with two mums and trans men. Those are places I could understand more support would be needed to maximise the benefits to baby and mum.

As it is, 🤢

I hadn't thought of that, not good

Never underestimate the lengths that men will go to in order to get their rocks off.

For this fellow to say fun and sexual gratification is mind blowing in two ways.
First that he feels he can be this brazen.
Secondly, that he said these things and there wasn't a riot at the conference, he wasn't run out of town, he hasn't been struck off from whatever medical body he belongs to. That's why he feels he <can be> this brazen.
There's basically no anger in society anymore, no judging what's right and what's wrong, no price to be paid for speaking this way?
And his oh so inclusive views will worm their way into general acceptance?

That's the same picture.

I actually think it doesn't make a difference if the man is sexually motivated, or motivated by rage, or motivated by some sincere delusion that he is a mother (unlikely). The outcome is the same for the baby, the baby is being forced to suck on a male body part and consume what emerges.

It is utterly sick. It is no "worse" if it is a "cis" man, it is equally sick either way. We must all be a little bit conditioned if we are thinking it is worse coming from a "cis" man.

“As to the question of why they would want to, it seems reasonable to believe that cis men want to lactate for the same reasons as anyone else. Which is to say, usually to feed and bond with their baby and to a lesser extent for curiosity, fun, or sexual gratification.”

And he isn't in prison?

There's only one sort of curiosity needed here, and that's into this fellow himself.
How did the conference not dissolve into chaos when he said those words?
Can lactation experts attending really have listened to his words and not pushed back?

Wtf Ireland?! Has this been linked on the conference’s social media pages? I’d share it everywhere

This quack really should have been extremely clear in his insistence that that men who want to lactate for 'sexual gratification' (🤢) exclusively only do so with other consenting adults who are into that kind of weird shit?

He did that, didn't he?
Someone say he did.

@MarcTheGenderSkeptic - I completely agree, shame has a place in society as a tool to make us all keep to the social contract. All this 'bring your whole self to work' and 'you mustn't kink shame' is a load of old bollocks that weakens personal boundaries and preys on a lot of people's guilt, fear and obligation to 'be kind'.

gender euphoria
<<puke>>

The conference isn't until October, that's lots of time for the outrage to catch up the the ALCI...
I see he's on twice - the programme is at
ALCI - Association of Lactation Consultants in Ireland

They obviously just fell for the magical words 'gender/diverse/queer' and decided they had to have him, whatever bizarre, fetishistic position he holds.

Art 3.8 of their constitution
3.8 The Association shall ensure activities of the Association are compliant with statutory regulations and best practice in regard to health, safety and welfare of members and the general public, and with particular regard to following the principles of child protection. As an Association, members are expected to be aware of their obligations with infants, young children, and families, in this respect. Members are advised to be aware of their mandated reporting status under the Children First Act 2015.

This last point is interesting - surely some mandated person at the conference needs to report a man who puts in writing that he considers men 'breastfeeding' an infant as a source of 'curiosity, fun, or sexual gratification'.

3.3 The Association shall be welcoming, respectful, inclusive, and committed to upholding the Equality Act of 1990.
Constitution-of-ALCI-Jan-22.pdf
Interesting that they refer to the Equality Act of 1990, which is very clearly about sex, as in being men or women; the term 'gender' hadn't come into Irish legislation yet. This Act allows for discrimination on the grounds of sex, where appropriate. It doesn't cover breastfeeding, but if it did...

On the subject of diversity - I remember a time when the access details of the venue would be given as a matter of course, including the provision of signers and induction loops, and the venue would be chosen on the basis of its accessibility and facilities for people with disabilities.
Not only does the ALCI not give any such information, the hotel's website just says 'facilities for disabled people', but no details.

This is an example of an organisation seeing the word 'diversity' and only thinking 'trans', instead of prioritising making their event, in the first place, physically accessible to everybody.

We've gone backwards on disability rights.

As the OP says, he hasn't been struck off because he's not a doctor, or any other kind of HCP. I used to think people could bullshit in this in America, but in Europe we had more sense. Not so any more, sadly.

Well, at the very least unanimous opprobrium when he made these comments, and the room as one stopping his talk and telling him to leave.
I thought it was a conference to help women with lactation concerns, not a conference to affirm men's sexual gratification and autogynephillic demands.