Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton, following Employment Tribunal judgment - thread #62

@fanOfBen I can take over now if you like?

brilliant, thank you!

shut up judge, her pace is fine.

LM ( missed ) asking for comment on men who id as women transferred to women’s estate - didn’t give comment didn’t know what was going on - early 2018 reflected on calls - wider debate GRA on issues- reading in own time in 2018 part prison estate males in female estate and GRA

NC anything practical about interest ? LM yes women’s place uk run meting in Edinburgh feb I was on hol asked if any more meetings as keen to attend they were working - I told consultation in Scotland on GRA and would they (missed) they would try but small group

J asked to submit evidence what was response LM they would try but not based Scotland I said I would help them draft consultation response feb 2018 in their name wouldn’t see I was involved but helped them

LM website 32 local authorities protected charactirisfis equality act 2010 gender not sex ? ( missed) summer 2018 met MC from FWS new group spoke re concerns - first contest with them when parliament went back bill to change census act 2020 conflating sec with gender identity . Starts to talk friends KM and LHB interest in criminal justice policy draft leg concerned conflating sex and gender

LM Sent evidence to parlimiamently committee setting out concerns NC Howard league what is it? LM charity campaigns for penal reform for people caught in CJS NC Did you KM and LHB do anything else ? LM Sent to parliamentary committees then Km approached by Scottish Affairs

LM - article covering prisons policy. Management of trans prisoners and census a we drafted article (missed) we concluded Scottish govt etc privileged trans id and not thought of impact of policies on women. Two groups merifed support but one overlooked at expense of another.

NC we? LM - me and Lucy gave our self a name used surnames Blackburn Mackenzie policy collective ? NC How did it work LM crowdfunded raised £45k used to pay self modest sum generated briefings analysis (missed) worked in own time fitting it all around our other pieces of work

Currently 38 in my room, so may well be almost 200 observers.

NC Happening whilst Policy officer at RCN? KM Yes (missed) NC did you tell them at RCN KM told I had interest and was doing pieces of work no reference to my name after that seconded to comms, when returned to policy role submitted conflict of interest nov 2018 trigger was FWS

I have been surprised in previous tribunals I've watched, where I read that there were no more Observer places available, that there were usually fewer than 30 people in my room.

I understand that, in in-person meetings, it's becoming common for those who are anti-whatever-is-being-discussed to get tickets and then fail to turn up. This has the double effect of limiting the number of tickets available to supporters and having fewer people in the room so it looks as if they have a limited number of followers.

Perhaps there's a little of that this time.

However, there are more people present in my room today and yesterday than I've noticed in other tribunals on similar topics.

Yes to me this is the broader point of this tribunal

a union which is recognised by the employer shld be on top of workplace policies and how they impact the workers and whether they’re lawful?

Whether Sandie's team goes down that route remains to be seen

LM secured meeting with CMO as knew my colleagues work on census and realised I might meet him later as RCN - trigger to complete - meeting cancelled but I completed form.
NC Page 686 is that the paper you mentioned
LM Yes - ran past line manager submitted to Jane Clerk governance manager heard nothing back

KM a manger said chase it but no response
NC P 685 what is it
KM dec of interest form
NC presented findings to event on sex based right
KM Not me, colleague Lucy, 2018 - 5 speakers very large protest people with placards shouting - MP from four parties - Labour MO never felt so intimidated in 25 years

LM - tickets free reg in advance, someone stink bomb let off, security briefing before hand, very nervous, one speaker sick in toilet from nerves. Julie Bindell speaker left early , man lunged at her pulled back by security guards- he was charged, I was in audience we left feeling shaken
NC following day
LM - I met LM my mother in law just had catastrophic stroke - told her that paper co- authored presented policy analysis but given reaction to meeting and large protest made me wonder if paper more incendiary than imagined happy to share draft with her

LM - also told her man from I believe RCN violent threats to women online I was nervous he would connect me with the RCN . She said employee safety v serious - v reassuring - meeting concluded.
NC P24 Turn through remind self explain what pages show and what you know of
LM - Ss from Twitter violent threats towards terfs - missed - terfs have absolutely no chance against me - friendly warning to all the terfs personally assure(missed) picture of a boot saying my terf stomping boots have arrived suit up its terf time?

The reading out of these tweets and getting them into the judges notes is great because some of the stuff that gets tweeted is bloody vile.

NC p28
LM Another tweet punch nazis ( missed) be proud of it dehumanisation and annilatatikn of oppressed group
NC
LM Missed common theme from activist
NC What if anything about line manager about Mulraney?
LM hoping she’d come back to me to say if he was a member of RCN

LM hoped how mitigate for my safety or she checks and he is not a member - but no response so never knew.
NC mentioned talking to LM re draft what happened ?
LM brought printed copy following week handed to LM Rachel
NC in bundle misplaced ref 686 - not this was draft of this
NC after that ?
LM not in work for week due to MIL. Approached as soon as I arrived LM wants me to meeting at 130pm could take union rep wouldn’t tell me what about- asked if draft article she said yes, found union rep Stuart Fraser asked to accompany which he did

Stuart Fraser again!

It's a really common name - do we know whether it's the same one?

NC What happened meeting
LM me line manager and SF- letter. Investigated for breach of contract and failure to follow policy of RCN -(missed) they would decide if disciplined - happened early July
NC page 718 what is it
LM note of investigation
NC page 719 720
LM DRAFT of note allowed to comment so sent a few comments
NC did that conclude
LM Shortly after IV 2 weeks leave, hol. Nights before email to personal email from Norman ? apologised for personal but wanted to let

Don't know. Surely if it was a different one it would have been pointed out?

LM me know Eileen Mackenna on hol so he some in place that meeting was offered more quickly with deputy director he recognised stressed offered to meet sooner
NC p726 is that the email
LM Yes
NC 727
LM Letter sharing outcome of disc IX signed by Norman proven?
LM not full disp action - properly advised re declaration of interest as I had never had a formal response from governance in London, never told what it was about article that was problematic from RCN - allegations breached t&c related to seeking permission writing publication

Missed
LM never told which views problematic from RCN POV following receipt of letter had to go to dicusssion with Lm Rachel Cackett had three meetings over 6 or so weeks to discuss work.
NC how did letter make you feel
LM Relieved not full disc action but upset worst experience of working life to be under investigation

LM I remember crying in meeting quite shaken up quite frustrated and what happens after that was process of discussion me and my lm asking what work outside RCN extremely intrusive
NC seperate pieces of paper on desk - 1256-1257
LM note from RC 29th July re recommendations investigation of report into me NC p1258

Ah shit, will ensure corrected