Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton, following Employment Tribunal judgment - thread #62

Even if the case is lost, the fact that they had to fight it may concentrate RCN's mind. They have other similar cases upcoming, and if their behaviour in those has been worse... Perhaps Sandie (and her backer) may have thought "in for a penny, in for a pound" and strategically decided to bring every case with a decent chance of winning, not only those certain to.

TW - Transwoman (male person claiming female gender identity)
TM - Transman (female person claiming female gender identity)

I think the wonderful TTs have a typo here.
TM - Transman (female person claiming male gender identity)

Someone has their microphone on!!

Currently being discussed on Woman’s hour BBC radio 4

Yes, I was confused about that. I'm not the only one, I think - Lorna someone on Scotcast about the case (worth listening to, link below) said the numbers of observers had dropped off compared with the main case, to "dozens", without mentioning the limited number of spaces and first-come-first-served!

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m00320dw/scotcast-peggie-tribunal

Listening to this with interest as it's Anita Rani hosting, who famously deplores the 'transphobia' of women standing up for their right to single sex spaces.

The sound is terrible again!

I’ve never been a member of a union, but is the possible angle that a union which is recognised by the employer shld be on top of workplace policies and how they impact the workers and whether they’re lawful?

So is there the broader point that RCN didn’t do the basics that a union is supposed to do. They shld have queried the policy of letting men self ID into women’s spaces - as it was against workplace regulations - before there was any incident. They have lawyers for this. Whereas nurses like Sandie are just thinking my employer has introduced this crazy new idea. And as we have seen, most people at work need their job and don’t want/can’t raise their head above the parapet.

Or are unions just supposed to be reactive to individual members complaints?

I think it’s significant that 2 other nurses testifying are from different hospitals, so it’s a general complaint about how the union didn’t fulfil its duty to members.

Sound is appalling again today. Why don't they all have clip on mics? Much easier for everyone.

SP case being discussed on Woman’s Hour now!

I'm casting to my TV so I can turn the volume up more. Very hard to make out what they are saying sometimes.

Yesterday, the list of observers in my room each had a microphone crossed out symbol on them, suggesting this had been done centrally. Today, not. I've turned off my microphone at device level but anyone who hasn't might want to check!

A break already. The judge has left the room!

I've only just sat down

From TT:

J -good morning furthe doc?
NC - y 16 page doc fair care for trans patients - throughout relevant period couldn’t print copy. Can copy
J DH are you happy?
DH no objection q ( can’t hear)
NC hard copy 1255 to page 1261
DH unheard

Hard to hear
J - additional doc not printed is that for this w?
NC yes for next week authorise print now?
j I will on this occasion but not expected to be doing will need to break for doc to be printed I will rise for to be done . Stay in room .
Judge leaves room

DH and NC discussing document pages

The dog is walked. I've fortified myself with a slice of boiled fruit cake and am now sat down with a cup of tea to try ad work and watch the tribunal. Always have to check my work with a fresh eye later to make sure I haven't transposed words from the tribunal in to the text!

I think it depends on whether or not you have joined as an observer. Mine keeps reverting to the audio and video selection each time I log in.

I dont know if my microphone is on or not or how to check, I just selected the observer option though so shouldn't have it on.

@fanOfBen I'm here now! Just need a minute to get set up!

I'm in room 5. So presumably there are at least 5 rooms.

I noticed that, re-selected Observer as instructed, but still landed in the room with no crossed out microphone symbol. I think their software has multiple settings controllable centrally and not everyone controlling them understands them...

In Windows, the easiest thing is to search (in the general bottom-left search box) for microphone, and select something like microphone privacy settings. In the box that pops up there's a master switch labelled "Let apps access your microphone". If you turn that off, you should be safe.

ETA in my room at least, the crossed out microphone symbols have now appeared, so someone found the central control :-)

From TT:

Short break to print documents.

Will return when judge is back.

Judge returns and sits.

J- that doc will be added to back of folder and would start at 1262
NC a very grateful
J Srart LM evidence?
NC Yes
J Swear in LM
LM affirms
NC full name
LM gives full name
NC worked at RCN oct 2017 to 9th sep 2019

NC Page 670 bundle. That’s your job description in role? Describe how interested in debate sex and gender

I'm in room 4, so there must be at least 5.

Anita sounded relieved to finish that segment