Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton, following Employment Tribunal judgment - thread #62

Thanks @fanOfBen

Thanks for the c&p!

I can do tomorrow, but might be a little late starting as have appointment first thing.

Brilliant, thanks. I should be able to start us off but I'd like not to be obligately glued to it as I was today!

From Nick Wallis: "[Hanvey is bald and is wearing a green three piece tweed suit a green tartan tie with brown shoes. He has been affirmed.]" was the highlight of a depressing re-hash of things that Sandie should never have had to suffer! I didn't notice his appearance or attire at all although I did watch him stand to affirm! 😁

He's wonderful. Not my constituency MP, but the constituency where I used to live. Had to contact him about a family matter one time. Lovely chap.

Interesting how SF appears to have written down words on his ‘notes’ (contemporaneous, supposedly) that never came out of SP’s mouth. Calling the Upton fellow a ‘trans female’, and using ‘she’ for the biological male in the woman’s changing room. Very ideological language.

Did he send (or give the instructions) for the email that contained a number as subject, I wonder?

Musing over why the RCN had opened a case file before Sandie had contacted them.

And the reps contemporary notes my arse.

Obviously they have been fiddling with records.

As for the document that was spanned obviously deliberately.

The stand out for me was there seems to be to-ing and fro-ing but no actual referrals up to an actual solicitor, to start making proper and appropriate legal arguments from the RCN to the FHB

Thanks @fanOfBen for copying over today.

Yes, I noticed the description of Mr Hanvey's splendid attire as well!

I'm assuming we just use the same link etc tomorrow?

I thought that the statement "He has been affirmed", coming straight after the acknowledgement of his wonderful outfit was very funny. Affirmed in his tweed-gender, perhaps.

I notice the guardian has covered today's hearings. That feels positive.

@poodlemum01 Yes same link and pin throughout.

Earlier in evidence, Peggie had said she did not believe the union had pushed NHS Fife to stop men accessing single-sex spaces for women, which Hay challenged.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvrl6wpnxwz9o

When did the Union push NHS Fife to stop men accessing single-sex spaces for women?

Do you make a habit of condemning lots of people you've never met, or only the sex realist ones.?

When did the Union push NHS Fife to stop men accessing single-sex spaces for women?

Good question - seems like it would be fairly easy for the Union to check

And no doubt Naomi will ask the union, (if she knows the answer is in Sandies favour!)

After spending the day tribunal watching I'm seriously regretting not doing paperwork, that's needs completing before tomorrow morning, in the whole month I've had it.

The laptop has fallen out with the printer and is currently refusing to even acknowledge the bloody thing.

I'm just going to go throw something at something whilst screaming in frustration.

If you don't hear from me again it's because I'll be rocking in a corner cursing technology.

I believe condemning people you've never met is one of your protected characteristics when you self-identify as being on the right side of history.

Just catching up.

Many thanks to @fanOfBen, tribunal tweets and Nick Wallis for keeping us all informed.

Thanks @fanOfBen for double copy-pasting

It does feel like there's something fishy going on with the union. I can't imagine that NC would pursue the case if the union had actually done things properly.

I skipped many pages of DH’s questions, but it seemed he was making a point that SP never used the term GC and this appears to be significant to the RCN.

Presumably something like she was never expressing her legally protected belief that the earth is round. So how were they to know she thought the earth was round.

But isn’t saying the words "a bloke who says he’s a woman is using the woman’s cr and it’s making us women uncomfortable" enough to infer such beliefs?

Also made me wonder where does the term gender critical come from? Who first used it and why. It’s so easily misunderstood and framed as being a negative. Sex realist could be closer but even that might not be clear.

Just remember, "know" is not the same as "have met".

So what I heard today was a union that did as little as possible, did it slowly and badly.

Unless a supplicant dues paying member can recite the magic words in the correct order, no effective help.

Not sure if it's malice or institutional laziness.