Or is this victim blaming?

Good post.

She's conveniently not answering that question, it's the wrong type of question. Like the scenarios being shared are the wrong type of rape!

Two totally different things.

1. precautions that we all take to feel safer...because we choose to risk assess and act accordingly. Everyone does this in every aspect of life.
2. The actions of an attacker or someone who acts without consent, and being a victim of that attacker.,

If you link the two it is victim blaming.

Unfortunately women are at risk wherever they go, whatever they do.

Maybe we should reduce some of our risk by wearing burkas and always being accompanied by a male relative because poor men are unable to understand consent or control themselves. (sarcasm).

*And of course women are also risk at from men they already know & trust.

I am 68, and have always avoided what I have perceived were riskier situations and can recall well over 20 occasions of sexual assault or unwanted attention since the age of 14. Isn’t it time that men sorted this serious problem out themselves rather than women blaming other women’s behaviour.

I don’t think it’s disingenuous at all.

They do ask these questions.

Society needs to get away from blaming women for being raped by being out and about, by being drunk, by wearing the 'wrong clothing' by not screaming and fighting when a rape is occurring (heard of the freeze response @Feedingmybaby ) it is real. These things are said to rape victims and then compounded by idiots who seek to excuse rapists using the same sentences.

Society needs to focus on educating men that it is not ok to rape. There is a great 'cup of tea' analogy for this. No situation at all anywhere makes rape exceptable. This only helps the rapist.

Society needs to protect women and send a massive signal to all rapists and potential rapists that rape is the fault of the rapist only. Everyone needs to understand this and stop excusing rape. This is part of the reason that victims don't come forward - they get shitty comments from other women and men and victim blammed. It's dispicable.

I am disgusted by the people that excuse or minimise rape. You are all part of the problem and way the courts and lawyers think it's ok to victim blame and why society has yet to treat rape victims with the dignity they deserve and the rapists the scorn that they deserve. That day cannot come soon enough.

No because it would be the fault of the rapist wouldn't it? Like it is every single time. It's happened since the beginning of time, across various cultures, countries, dress codes, religions and every single time, it's the rapists fault not the woman.

If you wear a Rolex in this area is it guaranteed to be stolen. Very violently as well

I couldn't agree more with your first paragraph and would go so far as to say I did / do this knowingly believing my state of mind is healthier believing I do indeed have some control over my surroundings.

I don't take responsibility for the attackers actions but I do take responsibility for the fact that my own choices put me in that situation- and like you say- by that measure I can therefore control other situations I put myself in in the future.

I actively choose this way of viewing it, because I find it preferable to think of a world where I am not a victim, I carry some control over what happens to me, sometimes I will be unlucky and have no control at all but I can at least take control of some situations.

I honestly think this is a better way of looking at things.

Because I also honestly think that some men have raped and abused forever, and they will continue forever. It's in them. I'm not excusing it or taking any responsibility for it. I'm just being realistic about the world we live in.

So I think encouraging taking responsibility for the bits we can control ( which I know isnt everything but I'm sure is something! ) while knowing ourselves and our own personality leanings is the best way to be, and I definitely see personal responsibility as separate to blame.

Stop equating women to Rolexes. We can’t leave the fact we’re women at home.

And if she said 'Mum, you told me not to get drunk, but I did and then I got raped. I feel like it's my fault because I didn't keep myself safe.' What would you say to that?

Exactly.

I think the thing that makes this victim blamey for me is that you're associating two things - when considering the awfulness of a woman getting raped, if your mind immediately goes to considering whether she failed to keep herself safe enough, then you're inferring it could be her fault.

Like many women, I give my dds advice about staying safe. I don't think the recognition that some choices make it easier for men to rape you is inherently victim blaming. But I don't think there's any other crime where people jump so quickly to "did you do enough to make sure the criminal couldn't commit a crime?"

If a man gets beaten up, no one immediately questions whether they did enough to avoid it, if they were wearing enough padding so they didn't get as badly hurt, and if not, isn't it partially their fault?

Indeed.

Women still get raped wearing burka's. Women get raped in the daylight. Women get raped when wearing jeans and a t-shirt. Women get raped when sober. Women get raped at work, at home and out and about. Women get raped.
Men need to be held accountable for ALL cases of rape, whether deemed by someone like the OP as putting themselves at risk or not. Stop with the looking for excuses for rapist and come at it as they shouldn't rape. Consent should always be gained. It's not difficult if you try to see that rapists are bad men and there are no excuses for rape, no matter how you try to find them, really not acceptable.

Sad that women judge others like this and think they must have derserved it. They really shouldn't be raped.

I used to work for an English police force. There were a series of robberies of street prostitues (police station was in a well known area for street prostitution). While this was being investigated it escalated and two prostitutes were robbed and raped, one anally.

They were caught, I put the paperwork together, put all notes statements etc on the computer. No one asked if they'd been drinking or what they'd been wearing. There was a successful prosecution.

I worked with some great officers.

In any event none of this bullshit about risk applies to most rapes which are carried out by someone the woman knows.

Everyone on here who is shouting 'victim blaming' when people point out that it makes sense for a woman to do what she can to keep safe – would they really not want to give their own daughters the same advice?

It's a sad fact of life that there will be creeps and rapists around, maybe prowling the streets, maybe living in your own home....and sometimes, apart from staying home alone with padlocks on your doors, nothing can keep a woman safe.
But sometimes there are things she can do to lessen risks, and that's the point.
However, if she is sexually assaulted or raped...no matter what she did, where she was, what she wore ..ITS NOT HER FAULT.

This is an important point. I don't know why so much emphasis is put on stranger rape, which is actually very rare. While women are curtailing their lives 'keeping themselves safe' most rapes occur in homes and workplaces. What is the motivation for making it seem like stranger rape is more common than it is? I have a few theories and all of them relate to much easier it makes it for men to rape and get away with it.

Did you go to court and listen to the defence lawyers. They really do everything they can to blame you.

I know, I've been in that position myself. My case was years ago and I was made to feel dirty for walking home alone with a jumper that didn't cover my shoulders. Disgusting. The shitty man got a fine.

I hope that things are better at police forces and probably some they are but definately some aren't. Seems some police men rape vulnerable women and also kill them - some high profile cases recently.

I think you need to factor in trust - many women, myself included, were wary of unknown men or recent acquaintances and did their utmost to keep themselves safe only to be raped or assaulted by men they trusted.

It is not about putting yourself at risk because risk is determined by the man you are with not the situation.

This is the only relevant quotation of the whole thread IMO.

It is not about putting yourself at risk because risk is determined by the man you are with not the situation.

I would add that you cannot to take responsibility for the decisions and actions of someone else.

Maybe women should just only be allowed out if there is a man with them. Oh hang on, haven't the Taliban already thought of that one!

I walk alone in the dark all the time? It wouldn't occur to me not to because the relatively small risk feels well worth it compared to the inconvenience of a self imposed curfew... it gets dark so early in winter! I walked my son home from nursery in the dark yesterday and I genuinely don't know anyone who avoids being out after dark (maybe very late at night, but definitely not in the afternoon/evening).

Are there really women who avoid this? I'm not sure if it depends on area (though women definitely were out and about after dark when I lived in a city for university), but it feels incredibly sad if people are avoiding a dog walk after work in winter, for example.