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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To end this friendship?

152 replies

Coldcalmcollected · 07/11/2026 17:35

I’m being asked to support someone and I can’t. It’s a long one.

Basically, my friend was in a long-term relationship with my BIL (DH’s brother), they met through me. She has always known that he did not want any more children (he has 2 with his ex-wife). She has, until recently, been fine with it- at least publicly. Obviously, I cannot know if she has secretly harboured other wishes but she has never given this impression (and, in previous relationships says she did not want children, so I’m inclined to think this is a change of heart). According to BIL, he has always been 100% clear that he does not want any more children and has never suggested he might change his mind- until recently she has never suggested she was unhappy with this situation. However, recently she decided she does want children. BIL’s view remained unchanged.

A few months ago friend had an “oops” pregnancy- I believe she deliberately stopped contraception without saying so (I.e. planned a pregnancy) based on something she said to me and my other SIL- but she quickly backtracked when both of us were fairly horrified at the “sometimes you just have to make it happen, if you get what I mean” comment.

I would agree she has the right to stop contraception any time she likes, but she should be honest with her partner as it’s a mutual thing if no contraception is being used. Equally, I think both parties have to accept contraceptive failures do happen. But deliberately not using it without saying so is utterly wrong and a huge betrayal of trust, in my opinion.

BIL had a vasectomy very quickly (privately) after he found out his partner was pregnant- against her wishes- as he was adamant he does not want more children. I think he probably should have done it sooner, but equally don’t think it unreasonable that he trusted his partner to take the agreed contraceptive. He was accepting of a contraceptive failure, though he was honest about the fact that he was not keen to keep the baby. He was obviously prepared to shoulder his responsibility to the baby, despite his lack of enthusiasm. I think this is totally reasonable.

Sadly, friend had a miscarriage at 14 weeks. She was, and is, devastated by the miscarriage. I do feel for her- despite the circumstances- and I know BIL’s palpable relief at the outcome probably made it harder for her. But, equally, I think he is entitled to his own feelings and never pretended he was excited to be a father again. Obviously, I have never said that to her- that is just my thoughts.

Anyway, I’d said to DH about what she’s said and that I thought this was very off. DH also thought that what she said was suspicious. It seems other SIL also told her husband. After he thought about it for a short period, he spoke to his other brother- and both decided to speak to BIL. This was around the same time friend miscarried. He told DH he had some suspicions but given events had decided to give her the benefit of the doubt (especially as it cannot happen again).

Anyway, he was devastated to have his suspicions supported and that his partner would do this- he confronted her. According to him she initially denied it, but eventually said she had accidentally messed up her contraception but had just not said anything, so it wasn’t planned in advance (he doesn’t really believe this and thinks it was a very deliberate choice, probably been the case for some time). However, even if it was a one-off slip, she still chose not to say anything which might have meant BIL would have used a condom or abstained- she apparently admitted to him that she thought he would have done one of those things if he had known the reality of the situation. He has ended their relationship. As they aren’t married, she is going to be in a significantly worse financial situation as she has no claim on any assets or their home.

I am in an awkward situation- I do feel sorry for her as she is understandably struggling with the miscarriage, the end of her relationship but equally think she has behaved terribly towards her ex-partner, who is a member of my family. She’s furious with me/us, but equally wanting support and for me to “speak to” BIL to convince him to give her a second chance.

I genuinely can’t do the latter- I think it’s not only not my place, I believe he is right to end the relationship. I can’t apologise for the former, as I don’t think it was fair to ask me to keep this to myself. In short, I don’t really think I am the right person for her to lean on right now. I think our friendship is essentially over. I think it was over the minute she admitted what she had done- I feel that if she understood me, she should have known what I’d think about her actions, and how I’d feel about being asked to keep it to myself when it is a member of my family impacted. I genuinely do not know why she told us/suggested this if she did not want anyone else to know.

Her mother contacted me to say how much friend is struggling and how worried she is about her mental health, and also how disappointed she is that I haven’t been there more for her. The thing is, my friend just wants to rant about what a POS he is to have dumped her weeks after a miscarriage, making her leave their home etc. our friendship group is split- I’d say 3/4 agree what she did was utterly repugnant, and she put myself and other SIL in an awkward situation by telling us and expecting us to say nothing. The others feel that what she did “wasn’t ideal” but that she doesn’t deserve to lose her relationship, home etc over it and the miscarriage should have bought her some grace. This is going to cause problems in our group. I’m ok with this, although I am
sad as we’ve been friends for a long time, as others are entitled to their views.

I do feel sorry for her regarding the miscarriage, but I also think she is the author of her own misfortune and will have to live with the consequences of her actions. Her actions have absolutely rocked BIL too- he feels utterly betrayed, and is finding the violation of trust really hard to come to terms with. I just can’t pretend I’m ok with what has happened. AIBU?

OP posts:
OtterlyAstounding · 08/11/2026 10:36

MrsShawnHatosy · 08/11/2026 10:31

As far as he was aware she didn’t want children either. She didn’t tell him she’d changed her mind, so why would he think it necessary for him to use condoms?

It seems as though she did tell him. In the OP: until recently she has never suggested she was unhappy with this situation. However, recently she decided she does want children. BIL’s view remained unchanged.

This seems to imply she told him, and he didn't change his mind?

burnoutbabe · 08/11/2026 10:41

Fuckmyliferightnow · 08/11/2026 10:19

What she did was terrible but, if he really didn’t want kids why wasn’t he using condoms? Leaving the responsibility with the woman was not right, especially when he knew for sure he didn’t want kids and she did.
Her deceit is unforgivable though and I would cut her out.

Would any woman want to have sex with a man is who in Effect saying “I don’t trust you enough so I shall wear a condom”. Surely that’s a mode killer on both sides?

Hoardasurass · 08/11/2026 10:45

5128gap · 08/11/2026 10:28

I don't even see the dilemma here. Surely a person with such a strong sense of ethics as you will be nothing but truthful?
"Sorry (former) friend, but given it was me who made sure your husband knew about this in the first place, I'm hardly likely to advocate for you now. I have judged you seven ways till Sunday, am firmly on your husband's side and proactively made sure he knew what you'd done, in full knowledge he may end your marriage. Knowing this, I'm sure you can see that anything I have to say to BiL about this will not be in your interests".
Problem solved.

Well you clearly haven't bothered to read any of the OPs posts otherwise you would know that you've just made up an entire false story.
The ex friend was never married to the bil and made her admission to both of her partners sil and both women told their husbands, it was the two brothers who decided to tell the third brother what his partner did to him.
Why do you want to blame everyone except the only guilty person ie the ex friend

MrsShawnHatosy · 08/11/2026 10:54

OtterlyAstounding · 08/11/2026 10:36

It seems as though she did tell him. In the OP: until recently she has never suggested she was unhappy with this situation. However, recently she decided she does want children. BIL’s view remained unchanged.

This seems to imply she told him, and he didn't change his mind?

Yes you’re right sorry. But she still abused his trust.

5128gap · 08/11/2026 10:54

Hoardasurass · 08/11/2026 10:45

Well you clearly haven't bothered to read any of the OPs posts otherwise you would know that you've just made up an entire false story.
The ex friend was never married to the bil and made her admission to both of her partners sil and both women told their husbands, it was the two brothers who decided to tell the third brother what his partner did to him.
Why do you want to blame everyone except the only guilty person ie the ex friend

Marriage/long term committed relationship, tomayto/tomato.
I know well that the brothers were the ones who actually told him. However the OP and other SiL told them, and unless they had no idea of their husbands characters would have had a good idea what the outcome of that would be.
I'm not 'blaming' anyone. Merely pointing out that the OPs friend is asking for her support believing OP to be in her corner. To leave her in the dark as to OPs own actions and views is disingenuous.

whippersnapper55 · 08/11/2026 10:55

I suppose it depends on how good friends you are. She did a stupid and dangerous thing but she has paid a heavy price for that and she is struggling. She's not the first, and won't be the last to have an 'accidental' pregnancy - I think the drive to have a baby can be very strong and even stop you thinking rationally. She probably thought once the baby is here, he'll love it and it'll all be ok.

She's lost a baby and that is a difficult loss to bear, especially when you know your partner is relieved and not devastated as you are. If you are close friends, I wouldn't be able to turn away from her at such a difficult time for her. Yes, she made a terrible mistake but that doesn't negate years of friendship. The very best thing about lifelong friends is that they've seen you at your worst, know the things you've said and done that you're not proud of, and they still love you.

I would meet with her and have a heart to heart - tell her what you're struggling with and that you're finding it hard to feel supportive when you feel she has done something really wrong and that it has impacted your husband's family and divided your loyalties. If she's a good friend, she'll be able to see it from your side as well. You can think she's behaved badly and still feel sympathy for the situation she's in.

Passingthroughagain · 08/11/2026 10:55

Hoardasurass · 08/11/2026 10:45

Well you clearly haven't bothered to read any of the OPs posts otherwise you would know that you've just made up an entire false story.
The ex friend was never married to the bil and made her admission to both of her partners sil and both women told their husbands, it was the two brothers who decided to tell the third brother what his partner did to him.
Why do you want to blame everyone except the only guilty person ie the ex friend

It's not entirely false. The married bit is incorrect, but OP told her DH knowing he would intervene. And OP has judged her friend in every single comment she's put on this thread.

Yes, the friend is the guilty party, no question. She did a really stupid, awful and distrustful thing and it's right the relationship ended. But a bit of compassion wouldn't go amiss either. Her DP dumped her either just before she miscarried or during and then didn't bother to hide his relief that their baby was no more. He's not the prize catch OP seems to think he is.

OtterlyAstounding · 08/11/2026 10:58

MrsShawnHatosy · 08/11/2026 10:54

Yes you’re right sorry. But she still abused his trust.

Oh, I absolutely agree.

I think really, given the fact that the friend keeps hoping OP will act as a go-between, for everyone's sake, it's best if OP steps back from the friendship and explains she thinks they both need some distance for a while.

Menier · 08/11/2026 11:02

LemonPuppyPorkChop · 07/11/2026 17:45

I think you’re way too involved here, and that passing on something she told you to your DH was an outrageous betrayal of confidence. Basically, this is the mess you get when you interfere.

This.
Unfortunately given the info in your post you are all too involved, but it's probably too late to do anything about that now.
If the tables were turned how would you feel?

MissJoGrant · 08/11/2026 11:04

LemonPuppyPorkChop · 07/11/2026 17:45

I think you’re way too involved here, and that passing on something she told you to your DH was an outrageous betrayal of confidence. Basically, this is the mess you get when you interfere.

It's unreasonable to expect someone to keep secrets like that from their husband/wife, especially when it involves their sibling.

4500kj · 08/11/2026 11:23

OP is hardly over involved by choice.

1.horrible friend openly admitted her (morally reprehensible) actions in front of OP and SIL. SIL told her husband, so if even if OP hadn’t said anything, the information was still being passed through the family and OP would’ve damaged her own relationship with her husband. I can’t be the only one who sees loyalty to husband > loyalty to friends. Information that isn’t relevant to him (eg jane is considering quitting her job) is none of his business, information about someone knowingly baby trapping his brother? I’d say that’s relevant.

2.horrible friend is still trying to get OP in the middle by contacting BIL on her behalf. I’m sorry she had a miscarriage, but some self reflection here would tell you that this relationship is irreconcilably broken and they are fundamentally incompatible. Friend clearly wants children and BIL had a vasectomy. When friend can be rational, she might realise this breakup is for the best.

SockPlant · 08/11/2026 11:33

Bluntly, it’s not the OP’s business. I don’t disagree that what the SIL did was ethically wrong, but her husband was also irresponsible about contraception in the circumstances.

Most people want men to pull-up their rapey friends - telling rape jokes, "persuading" uwilling women to have sex with them, pestering women.

And this is the same. This woman commmitted a gross betrayal of her partner, and now reaps what she sowed. She told someone that she did something unforgiveable to her partner. And rightly that person has passed on the information. I would have done the same.

The miscarriage is very unfortunate, especially for this woman who went to awful lengths to get pregnant, but it is no more than a distraction. She told a massive lie, and he ended the relationship. Should he have stayed unti she was in a better place mentally? (IMO: no) She is using her flying monkey (mum) to try to coerce someone (OP) to do something they don't feel is right.

tbh BIL should have had a vasectomy long ago - but he didn't and he was, according to OP, prepared to step up to his respoinsibility. He is not in the wrong here.

SockPlant · 08/11/2026 11:50

I am not sure I am the best person to help her through this, for her sake. I do hope she gets the support she needs, as I know she is devastated regarding her miscarriage.

you sound kind, OP, so i would just say this either to your friend if you can, or to her mother if you don't feel you can.

WhatNoRaisins · 08/11/2026 12:04

I think in situations that can't be made right all that's left to do is to behave in a way that you can live with afterwards. There is potential for you to be a supportive and kind friend but that doesn't mean being roped into her lies or pleading with her boyfriend to take her back if those actions don't feel right. Helping someone doesn't always mean doing what they want.

InessaMou · 08/11/2026 12:18

LoveWine123 · 07/11/2026 21:45

Well they are all involved because OP’s friend involved them when they told them what she had done.

Just because someone tries to involve you, doesn't mean you have to allow yourself to get involved.

Also, I don't think the wider friend circle were involved to begin with? Neither was the mother.

Throwmoneyatit · 08/11/2026 14:55

Cannot believe these responses!!! No, women absolutely cannot pretend we're on contraception and have our partner trust this to be the case, to then not use it and get pregnant because that's what we want. So what, fuck the man?? Fuck whatever he wants because a woman has to be able to do whatever she wants, even if it does mean bringing a baby that is unwanted by one of their parents???
Fucking outrageous replies. Lots of people on here should be really ashamed of yourselves. You're all a disgrace.

Cosyblankets · 08/11/2026 16:01

What she did would be the equivalent of a man lying about having a vasectomy and the girlfriend getting pregnant.

That would not have been OK would it?

Passingthroughagain · 08/11/2026 16:07

I don't think anyone has said that what she did was okay but that doesn't mean we all want to crow over her situation now. She has lost her baby, lost her home and lost her relationship. She's paying a very high price and it's not a bad thing to have compassion for a woman who's miscarried, regardless of the circumstances.

Fuckmyliferightnow · 08/11/2026 22:06

@MrsShawnHatosyif a man doesn’t want children, he should also take responsibility and use contraception, not just leave it up to the woman.

croydon15 · 09/11/2026 21:10

I would end the friendship OP and certainly not mediate with your BIL, once the trust has gone the relationship is finished.

Coldcalmcollected · Yesterday 11:08

Quick update for anyone interested.

i met with ex-friend at her request, I think it probably was the right thing to do. Our friendship is definitely at an end, sadly. I just don’t think we are ever going to see eye to eye on this.

i am sorry she’s had a miscarriage, and for the pain that is causing her. I expressed this to her and am glad she is getting support from her mum and some friends.

unfortunately, she cannot accept my stance that I won’t be intervening with BIL on her behalf (if I was her friend I would, “to make up for allowing it to get out”) and she does not feel she did anything “all that bad” and that this has been blown out of all proportion. She says she needs him “now more than ever” and she wants to be able to grieve with him, that he’s over-reacting because he’s upset about the miscarriage. She wants to go back to living in his home and “living my life”. I said that I just don’t think she’s ever going to get what she wants from him in that regard, and that she would be better focussing on the support she does have and perhaps some counselling would help. She wouldn’t let it go- if she could just see him, he’d want to be there for her, she misses their home and their life. I think she’s living in a fantasy, where it all works out in the end somehow. The reality is that at the moment her ex really doesn’t want to speak to her, far less be her rock and source of comfort. I understand why she wants that (and the cynic in me wonders if some of this is about financial stability), but it’s not a realistic prospect. I honestly don’t think he feels very distressed by the miscarriage, he comes across as mainly relieved- he is very upset about what his ex-partner did and sad that their relationship is over. He’s very angry too. I said that I did not think she would benefit much from being in contact just now, as he is not likely to be a source of sincere sympathy and I’m sure she would not want to hear what he had to say, nor benefit from it.

She asked where that left us and would I try to help her as she asked- I explained that I believe what she did was utterly repugnant and a form of abuse (reproductive coercion), certainly a total betrayal of her partner’s trust- and had BIL done something of similar gravity to her, I would have told her too. Furthermore, if the shoe was on the other foot, I would not be encouraging her to go back into a relationship with him, nor intervening on his behalf with her because I would never encourage someone to continue/restart a toxic and coercive relationship. I wouldn’t be trying to excuse or minimise his actions either, so I can’t in all conscience do that for her. I said I think that she needs to accept that the relationship with BIL is over and that it probably was at the point that they wanted very different and irreconcilable things- and definitely the minute she violated his trust.

I said I’m sorry that she feels I let her down, but that I think I did what I felt was right in a difficult position- and I don’t think I’d change my actions if I could do it over again. I also said that I felt let down too, and that she’d not really been a good friend either. Why tell me, knowing that he’s my BIL and she’d be asking me to keep something really awful (that his partner had betrayed him) and had it come out that I knew and said nothing, she also is aware it could have impacted on my relationship with DH? I said I didn’t think it was right of her to put me in that position. She just said she didn’t think it was a big deal, but I thought it was and so shouldn’t have said anything because she’s my friend. If she didn’t think she’d done anything wrong, why was it a problem that BIL found out?

In the end, I said that we would just have to agree to disagree but I can’t do what you want me to or support you in the way you’re asking, and I can’t agree that what you did was something I can condone or ignore- though I do hope you’re ok in time. But, I think it’s probably best that we leave things here. She says she feels she deserves more than that and stormed out.

Ultimately, she just does not accept that what she did was wrong in any way. I honestly would never have thought this of her and I’m surprised she thinks I would be ok with it. I think we’re just not compatible as friends any longer.

i’m sure some won’t agree that what she did was wrong, and many will think I should have kept it to myself. I don’t think turning a blind eye to any form of abusive behaviour is ok, whoever the perpetrator may be- and had my BIL been abusing her in any way, I would not have looked away, nor would I have reassured him it was fine and just to carry on. I’m sorry that she has had a miscarriage, but it doesn’t negate or erase what she has done in any way. Nevertheless, I hope she gets the help she needs and recovers fully from it.

OP posts:
DahliaDelights · Yesterday 11:27

That must have been a very difficult conversation for you OP, sorry its ended that way but if she wont take any responsibility then its the only way.

EdgyNewt · Yesterday 11:35

@Coldcalmcollected You acted in the best way for the scenario. You helped her try and see sense but she has chosen to still believe that she was right.

She would probably benefit from counselling as she clearly isn't right in the head but you are right to walk away from this friendship as she is not behaving like a friend.

SylvanMoon · Yesterday 13:42

I think you've been a very good friend to her OP by having such a frank and empathetic conversation with her. And I think you are right that at least for now your friendship is over. It may be that in time she understands the enormity of the betrayal she did to her partner and to you, but that may not be enough to repair your friendship with her.

WhatNoRaisins · Yesterday 14:21

I think that you've done the best you can to treat her kindly whilst sticking by your own morals and principles OP. She doesn't sound like a well person and I'd be careful around her as some of what she says sounds quite manipulative.