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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To end this friendship?

152 replies

Coldcalmcollected · 07/11/2026 17:35

I’m being asked to support someone and I can’t. It’s a long one.

Basically, my friend was in a long-term relationship with my BIL (DH’s brother), they met through me. She has always known that he did not want any more children (he has 2 with his ex-wife). She has, until recently, been fine with it- at least publicly. Obviously, I cannot know if she has secretly harboured other wishes but she has never given this impression (and, in previous relationships says she did not want children, so I’m inclined to think this is a change of heart). According to BIL, he has always been 100% clear that he does not want any more children and has never suggested he might change his mind- until recently she has never suggested she was unhappy with this situation. However, recently she decided she does want children. BIL’s view remained unchanged.

A few months ago friend had an “oops” pregnancy- I believe she deliberately stopped contraception without saying so (I.e. planned a pregnancy) based on something she said to me and my other SIL- but she quickly backtracked when both of us were fairly horrified at the “sometimes you just have to make it happen, if you get what I mean” comment.

I would agree she has the right to stop contraception any time she likes, but she should be honest with her partner as it’s a mutual thing if no contraception is being used. Equally, I think both parties have to accept contraceptive failures do happen. But deliberately not using it without saying so is utterly wrong and a huge betrayal of trust, in my opinion.

BIL had a vasectomy very quickly (privately) after he found out his partner was pregnant- against her wishes- as he was adamant he does not want more children. I think he probably should have done it sooner, but equally don’t think it unreasonable that he trusted his partner to take the agreed contraceptive. He was accepting of a contraceptive failure, though he was honest about the fact that he was not keen to keep the baby. He was obviously prepared to shoulder his responsibility to the baby, despite his lack of enthusiasm. I think this is totally reasonable.

Sadly, friend had a miscarriage at 14 weeks. She was, and is, devastated by the miscarriage. I do feel for her- despite the circumstances- and I know BIL’s palpable relief at the outcome probably made it harder for her. But, equally, I think he is entitled to his own feelings and never pretended he was excited to be a father again. Obviously, I have never said that to her- that is just my thoughts.

Anyway, I’d said to DH about what she’s said and that I thought this was very off. DH also thought that what she said was suspicious. It seems other SIL also told her husband. After he thought about it for a short period, he spoke to his other brother- and both decided to speak to BIL. This was around the same time friend miscarried. He told DH he had some suspicions but given events had decided to give her the benefit of the doubt (especially as it cannot happen again).

Anyway, he was devastated to have his suspicions supported and that his partner would do this- he confronted her. According to him she initially denied it, but eventually said she had accidentally messed up her contraception but had just not said anything, so it wasn’t planned in advance (he doesn’t really believe this and thinks it was a very deliberate choice, probably been the case for some time). However, even if it was a one-off slip, she still chose not to say anything which might have meant BIL would have used a condom or abstained- she apparently admitted to him that she thought he would have done one of those things if he had known the reality of the situation. He has ended their relationship. As they aren’t married, she is going to be in a significantly worse financial situation as she has no claim on any assets or their home.

I am in an awkward situation- I do feel sorry for her as she is understandably struggling with the miscarriage, the end of her relationship but equally think she has behaved terribly towards her ex-partner, who is a member of my family. She’s furious with me/us, but equally wanting support and for me to “speak to” BIL to convince him to give her a second chance.

I genuinely can’t do the latter- I think it’s not only not my place, I believe he is right to end the relationship. I can’t apologise for the former, as I don’t think it was fair to ask me to keep this to myself. In short, I don’t really think I am the right person for her to lean on right now. I think our friendship is essentially over. I think it was over the minute she admitted what she had done- I feel that if she understood me, she should have known what I’d think about her actions, and how I’d feel about being asked to keep it to myself when it is a member of my family impacted. I genuinely do not know why she told us/suggested this if she did not want anyone else to know.

Her mother contacted me to say how much friend is struggling and how worried she is about her mental health, and also how disappointed she is that I haven’t been there more for her. The thing is, my friend just wants to rant about what a POS he is to have dumped her weeks after a miscarriage, making her leave their home etc. our friendship group is split- I’d say 3/4 agree what she did was utterly repugnant, and she put myself and other SIL in an awkward situation by telling us and expecting us to say nothing. The others feel that what she did “wasn’t ideal” but that she doesn’t deserve to lose her relationship, home etc over it and the miscarriage should have bought her some grace. This is going to cause problems in our group. I’m ok with this, although I am
sad as we’ve been friends for a long time, as others are entitled to their views.

I do feel sorry for her regarding the miscarriage, but I also think she is the author of her own misfortune and will have to live with the consequences of her actions. Her actions have absolutely rocked BIL too- he feels utterly betrayed, and is finding the violation of trust really hard to come to terms with. I just can’t pretend I’m ok with what has happened. AIBU?

OP posts:
Coldcalmcollected · 08/11/2026 07:46

Passingthroughagain · 08/11/2026 07:02

I’m curious: how soon after she miscarried did he throw her out? Days? Weeks?

He told her he was ending the relationship when she admitted the truth. She chose to go and stay with her mother a few days later. As far as I’m aware, he did not throw her out- she chose to leave as she felt her mother would be more supportive. I suspect that is the case, and her mother is better placed to be there for her, given the circumstances.

He has said he’d rather she did not come back, but if she needs to for a few weeks he won’t stop her.

OP posts:
ColadhSamh · 08/11/2026 08:09

She didn't mess up, she didn't make a mistake, she didn't forget, she didn't tell the truth, she was selfish, she put herself before any child she would have conceived.

She planned, she was deceptive, she lied, she was deceitful, she abused the trust of many, she was deliberate in her actions.

@Coldcalmcollected loyalty is to her husband and well done for making a swift decision to tell the truth. You have a good, honest and supportive family. Your husband and BIL told their brother the truth which must have very difficult for them.
Your friend has abused your friendship. How arrogant of her to think you would stay silent. She does need support but that means professional help. Through her own actions, lies and deceit she has lost a relationship, good friends and a supportive network. Had she confided that she had wanted to have a baby she may have had to make difficult decisions around her relationship but they would have been honest and truthful.

Somewherenorthofhere · 08/11/2026 08:09

No, you are not unreasonable.

Actions have direct and indirect consequences as your friend has just found out.

Coldcalmcollected · 08/11/2026 08:11

LaAranaPequenita · 08/11/2026 07:45

Gosh, so many perfect and pure women on this thread.

As someone who had major infertility issues, and a reluctant lazy reproductive DH (wanted kids but the hassle of infertility was too much), I get that some women will beg borrow and steal to have a DC. I highly doubt that your friend is the first woman on the planet to fudge things a bit and see what happens. I have lots of women friends whose DH didn't want a second DC, and then ooopps they got pregnant.

I am not condoning what she did, but lots of women also get pregnant on contraception. I also get the consent bit about her partner. If he 100% didn't want more DC, he should have taken HIS fertility into his own hands. Imagine if a woman came on here and said she was upset she was pregnant and had relied on her partner and condoms. We would've said she needed to sort it out herself. I'm tired of men who outsource it all to us. All those hormones over decades don't do us any good, whilst they get off Scott free.

She has f*cked up big time, but she is in a really bad place. She has messed up, but your BIL is no saint. She has lost everything. Personally I would go make sure she is OK.

She got with a man who had already been married and had DC and then he was happy to have her live with him and be in a relationship, but with zero commitment. HE didn't want to have more DC and I take it HE didn't want to get married.

This is actually mistake no.2 that she made. Her mistake was setting her bar so low to have a man who didn't want to commit to marriage and have DC as he'd already done it, and staying with him long term.

Edited

Well, you are condoning what she did by saying it was actually his fault for not having had a vasectomy and what she did was understandable because she changed her mind about wanting a child and he had not.

The fact he did not have a vasectomy made her deception possible, it did not make it acceptable. That’s like saying leaving a window open makes it absolutely fine for someone to break in and commit robbery because you ought to be have been more careful about leaving windows open. Actually, you couldn’t call it robbery or theft, because you had essentially invited everyone to access your home at will and take whatever they wished because you had left that window open. It’s just nonsense.

If consent is important it is always important, not just when it suits a particular narrative. Reproductive coercion is never ok and should not be normalised as acceptable simply because it would seem many women do it. That is distinctly different from genuine contraceptive failures, which can and do happen and both parties have to accept as a possibility. The fact that many women pass off coercion as a contraceptive failure is reprehensible, but it is not a reason to give it a free pass because a woman is the perpetrator.

I just don’t agree that he was wrong to believe his partner would use the form of contraception they had mutually agreed upon. If she was so upset at contraception being “outsourced” to her, she could have said so and then left it to him to sort out. I suspect she was quite happy to use it until she changed her mind about children.

Until quite recently she was fairly clear about the fact she did not want children- so she did not settle- she was with someone who wanted the same as she did. She always knew that this was the case, she was not lied to. She also knew he did not want to get married again- this wasn’t someone who had been lied to and led on with promised of marriage and children “one day”. This is a case of a woman changing her mind- which is her prerogative, of course- but not in any way comparable to being duped from the outset.

OP posts:
ChocolateCinderToffee · 08/11/2026 08:15

Well, she is now free to find a partner who wants to have children with her.

Ethelspagetti · 08/11/2026 08:21

I don’t want any more children, if my husband was compromising the condoms to get another pregnancy, I’d be very upset. The trust would be gone and I’d wonder what else he does to get things he wants. I don’t blame him at all. Maybe he should have been more responsible as in having the vasectomy straight away instead of hoping the woman is on birth control! Anyway it is done now. You can continue to be friends with her but just don’t talk about BIL and their relationship breaking up. I wouldn’t end it with her especially if she was a good friend to you,

HelmholtzWatson · 08/11/2026 08:24

Imagine if a woman came on here and said she was upset she was pregnant and had relied on her partner and condoms.

and then in the next sentence she said he had deliberately taken steps to make sure they didn't work.

Most posters on here would be imploring her to call the police.

LightandAiry · 08/11/2026 08:27

@Coldcalmcollected I feel incredibly sad for your friend but also you are not the right person to support her and it's best to let her go. She has people to support her including her Mum. I don't think you will get past her manipulation and you know way too much about disputes inside the relationship told to you by your DH, which has made you disapprove of her all the more.

It's hard I've recently decided to step back from a friendship and I feel terribly guilty; the circumstances are very different but sometimes it's better to release people in order for them to move on, and I think that's what your friend needs to cope with the terrible grief she must feel, even though she's brought it on herself.

WhatNoRaisins · 08/11/2026 08:34

I suspect that between her having a miscarriage and him having a vasectomy the relationship was doomed even if the deception didn't come out.

Personally I don't think that anyone owes it to anyone else to become part of their web of lies and I don't blame you for confiding in your DH and sticking by his family in this. It's going to be hard to maintain any friendship with this woman, realistically everyone involved is going to have to pick a side here. You can still be polite if needed I guess, it's an awkward one.

ThatHangryRubyReader · 08/11/2026 08:42

Well I would have told my husband as we tell each other everything. Honestly we don't keep secrets. I also would have been clear about boundaries and where loyalties lie. Your friend is not really a friend now but your ex-sil

Passingthroughagain · 08/11/2026 09:11

Coldcalmcollected · 08/11/2026 07:46

He told her he was ending the relationship when she admitted the truth. She chose to go and stay with her mother a few days later. As far as I’m aware, he did not throw her out- she chose to leave as she felt her mother would be more supportive. I suspect that is the case, and her mother is better placed to be there for her, given the circumstances.

He has said he’d rather she did not come back, but if she needs to for a few weeks he won’t stop her.

Still not clear on the timeline - had she miscarried already when he ended the relationship or was she in the middle of miscarrying?

The reason I ask is because you have shown pretty much zero compassion for her losing their baby and the whataboutery is starting to grate. Yes, she did an awful, foolish thing, but she’s lost her child and lost her home. Your BIL sounds callous and you’re not coming across much better.

burnoutbabe · 08/11/2026 09:13

ThatLemonBee · 07/11/2026 23:57

Your friend has just lost a baby on her second trimester. Having had a miscarriage before I would say her MH trumps anything right now and if you can’t see that then you were never truly her friend . Bol being upset aside ( and I can completely see why by he did what he did) . She is still in need of true friends . If you cannot be one just leave her be but you have never been a friend in the full sense of the world

But it doesn’t seem like the support her friend wants is to support her in this loss.

its to plead her case to the brother in law?

which is very different.

Laurmolonlabe · 08/11/2026 09:24

True contraceptive failures do happen, but they are far less common than you would imagine from the amount of people that claim them. There are 2 children from such reported failures in my direct family, neither of which was a true contraceptive failure.

AlertCat · 08/11/2026 09:36

HRTFT just op posts.

@Coldcalmcollected i agree that you can’t be this woman’s friend any more, but for the sake of your long friendship, I would meet her and hear her out- even if you know you won’t change your mind. I might take some information on counsellors or services to give her as well. Just go and meet her for coffee, you can sympathise with the losses she’s going through without agreeing with her actions, or agreeing to speak on her behalf.

After that, she may have a sense of relief at having been heard, and be more able to come to terms with having gambled so hard and lost everything she had.

Neighull · 08/11/2026 09:42

Coldcalmcollected · 08/11/2026 08:11

Well, you are condoning what she did by saying it was actually his fault for not having had a vasectomy and what she did was understandable because she changed her mind about wanting a child and he had not.

The fact he did not have a vasectomy made her deception possible, it did not make it acceptable. That’s like saying leaving a window open makes it absolutely fine for someone to break in and commit robbery because you ought to be have been more careful about leaving windows open. Actually, you couldn’t call it robbery or theft, because you had essentially invited everyone to access your home at will and take whatever they wished because you had left that window open. It’s just nonsense.

If consent is important it is always important, not just when it suits a particular narrative. Reproductive coercion is never ok and should not be normalised as acceptable simply because it would seem many women do it. That is distinctly different from genuine contraceptive failures, which can and do happen and both parties have to accept as a possibility. The fact that many women pass off coercion as a contraceptive failure is reprehensible, but it is not a reason to give it a free pass because a woman is the perpetrator.

I just don’t agree that he was wrong to believe his partner would use the form of contraception they had mutually agreed upon. If she was so upset at contraception being “outsourced” to her, she could have said so and then left it to him to sort out. I suspect she was quite happy to use it until she changed her mind about children.

Until quite recently she was fairly clear about the fact she did not want children- so she did not settle- she was with someone who wanted the same as she did. She always knew that this was the case, she was not lied to. She also knew he did not want to get married again- this wasn’t someone who had been lied to and led on with promised of marriage and children “one day”. This is a case of a woman changing her mind- which is her prerogative, of course- but not in any way comparable to being duped from the outset.

I never understand the "if he was that bothered he should have worn a condom" thing because outside of one night stands surely you just trust the person youre with?!

Imagine you have to catch a flight and are planning to get a bus to the airport. But then a very close friend says "dont worry, ill drive you. Pick you up at 9."
Imagine she never shows up because she cant be bothered, its too late for you to catch the bus now and you miss your flight.
Is the normal response to this: "youre an adult, you shouldn't have relied on your friend, you should have taken precautions to get yourself to the airport"?
Come the fuck on 😂
If you're dating someone you expect a modicum of integrity surely

Hoardasurass · 08/11/2026 09:48

Rainandhail · 07/11/2026 23:17

Totally agree with these posts.

why on earth are you all so involved in another couple’s contraception issues? You’ve said you can’t get involved in helping your friend repair her relationships but you certainly could get involved when you all informed her husband of something she told you in confidence.

All sounds a bit too righteous.

Edited

The op has done nothing wrong, she told her husband the truth that his brother's partner had admitted to her and other sil that she intentionally came off the pill just to get pregnant without telling her partner and knew that he would never have had unprotected sex with her.
If the ex friend was a man she'd would be facing jail for rape by deception. Let that sink in, what she did is that despicable.
There is no coming back from that level of betrayal to a partner.
Oh and if you want to tell someone something in confidence don't brag about it infront of a witness whose only relationship with you is being the sil of your partner

5128gap · 08/11/2026 09:53

I think you've all done enough meddling, don't you? She lost the baby, he's had a vasectomy so there is no chance of a repeat, yet you had to wade in and throw another grenade in, and now the marriage is over.
The last people your SiL should be turning to are ones so unwise and interfering. You will be doing her a great favour by ending the friendship.

Thundertoast · 08/11/2026 09:55

Cannot believe the people on here who are almost defending her and would be very interested to know if they would feel the same if their current DHs previous partner had done something like this to them, or if a woman did this to one of their sons.

Also I dont agree that the miscarriage outweighs everything, because this woman brought what she did up in a casual conversation like it wasnt a big deal, and now she thinks that she should be able to talk BIL back round.
She has no concept of the gravity of her actions. This isnt someone who was so desperate for a baby she lost her mind, this is someone who felt entitled to a baby. If she actually took any of this seriously she would be leaving BIL and the friends alone as she would understand that of course they wouldnt want anything to do with her. Its all about her and what she wants.

NeelyOHara · 08/11/2026 09:57

Dancingspleen1 · 08/11/2026 05:41

I agree with this 100%
It was a terrible misjudgement on her side - she made a huge mistake but she's facing the ramifications now. She must be in a very dark place having lost her baby, partner and now her friend. I wouldn't turn my back on a friend in these circumstances.

Yeah, I’d still stick by her if she’s a friend, it sounds like her world has fallen apart.
Also, it seems like you worship your BIL a bit, - he can do no wrong at all.

MrsShawnHatosy · 08/11/2026 10:08

acron · 07/11/2026 22:58

On the one hand, BIL was totally clear about not wanting more kids. And your friend tricked him by not using contraception correctly, very deliberately. This is very bad behaviour from her.

That said, she was obviously desperate to have a baby. It’s very easy for those of us who have got children with a partner who did want them, to judge a woman who gets into a situation where she desperately wants kids but is with a partner who doesn’t. It must have been driving her crazy.

And a 14 week miscarriage must be utterly devastating, regardless of the circumstances.

But it doesn’t seem like the best person to support her is you. It’s your dh’s brother, he’s done nothing wrong and he’s taken action to get someone who betrayed him out of his life.

Being desperate for a baby does not justify abusing someone else’s trust and body to get one. Women do not have some sort of inalienable right to have a baby by any means and whatever the cost (and I say this as someone who wanted a baby but couldn’t have one due to infertility). She should have treated him with the respect he deserved as her partner and told him she’d changed her mind about wanting children.

MrsShawnHatosy · 08/11/2026 10:09

NeelyOHara · 08/11/2026 09:57

Yeah, I’d still stick by her if she’s a friend, it sounds like her world has fallen apart.
Also, it seems like you worship your BIL a bit, - he can do no wrong at all.

He hasn’t done anything wrong.

OtterlyAstounding · 08/11/2026 10:10

Neighull · 08/11/2026 09:42

I never understand the "if he was that bothered he should have worn a condom" thing because outside of one night stands surely you just trust the person youre with?!

Imagine you have to catch a flight and are planning to get a bus to the airport. But then a very close friend says "dont worry, ill drive you. Pick you up at 9."
Imagine she never shows up because she cant be bothered, its too late for you to catch the bus now and you miss your flight.
Is the normal response to this: "youre an adult, you shouldn't have relied on your friend, you should have taken precautions to get yourself to the airport"?
Come the fuck on 😂
If you're dating someone you expect a modicum of integrity surely

It's more similar to expecting your friend to drop you off at the airport on a daily basis, despite them telling you that they've started to resent doing it and would like to stop, and then being surprised when one day they choose to just leave you in the lurch.

Is it good behaviour on their part? Obviously not. But it's also entitled and foolish of you to keep demanding someone else does everything for you, instead of you arranging transport yourself.

Fuckmyliferightnow · 08/11/2026 10:19

What she did was terrible but, if he really didn’t want kids why wasn’t he using condoms? Leaving the responsibility with the woman was not right, especially when he knew for sure he didn’t want kids and she did.
Her deceit is unforgivable though and I would cut her out.

5128gap · 08/11/2026 10:28

I don't even see the dilemma here. Surely a person with such a strong sense of ethics as you will be nothing but truthful?
"Sorry (former) friend, but given it was me who made sure your husband knew about this in the first place, I'm hardly likely to advocate for you now. I have judged you seven ways till Sunday, am firmly on your husband's side and proactively made sure he knew what you'd done, in full knowledge he may end your marriage. Knowing this, I'm sure you can see that anything I have to say to BiL about this will not be in your interests".
Problem solved.

MrsShawnHatosy · 08/11/2026 10:31

Fuckmyliferightnow · 08/11/2026 10:19

What she did was terrible but, if he really didn’t want kids why wasn’t he using condoms? Leaving the responsibility with the woman was not right, especially when he knew for sure he didn’t want kids and she did.
Her deceit is unforgivable though and I would cut her out.

As far as he was aware she didn’t want children either. She didn’t tell him she’d changed her mind, so why would he think it necessary for him to use condoms?

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