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AIBU?

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Original poster

To end this friendship?

152 replies

Coldcalmcollected · 07/11/2026 17:35

I’m being asked to support someone and I can’t. It’s a long one.

Basically, my friend was in a long-term relationship with my BIL (DH’s brother), they met through me. She has always known that he did not want any more children (he has 2 with his ex-wife). She has, until recently, been fine with it- at least publicly. Obviously, I cannot know if she has secretly harboured other wishes but she has never given this impression (and, in previous relationships says she did not want children, so I’m inclined to think this is a change of heart). According to BIL, he has always been 100% clear that he does not want any more children and has never suggested he might change his mind- until recently she has never suggested she was unhappy with this situation. However, recently she decided she does want children. BIL’s view remained unchanged.

A few months ago friend had an “oops” pregnancy- I believe she deliberately stopped contraception without saying so (I.e. planned a pregnancy) based on something she said to me and my other SIL- but she quickly backtracked when both of us were fairly horrified at the “sometimes you just have to make it happen, if you get what I mean” comment.

I would agree she has the right to stop contraception any time she likes, but she should be honest with her partner as it’s a mutual thing if no contraception is being used. Equally, I think both parties have to accept contraceptive failures do happen. But deliberately not using it without saying so is utterly wrong and a huge betrayal of trust, in my opinion.

BIL had a vasectomy very quickly (privately) after he found out his partner was pregnant- against her wishes- as he was adamant he does not want more children. I think he probably should have done it sooner, but equally don’t think it unreasonable that he trusted his partner to take the agreed contraceptive. He was accepting of a contraceptive failure, though he was honest about the fact that he was not keen to keep the baby. He was obviously prepared to shoulder his responsibility to the baby, despite his lack of enthusiasm. I think this is totally reasonable.

Sadly, friend had a miscarriage at 14 weeks. She was, and is, devastated by the miscarriage. I do feel for her- despite the circumstances- and I know BIL’s palpable relief at the outcome probably made it harder for her. But, equally, I think he is entitled to his own feelings and never pretended he was excited to be a father again. Obviously, I have never said that to her- that is just my thoughts.

Anyway, I’d said to DH about what she’s said and that I thought this was very off. DH also thought that what she said was suspicious. It seems other SIL also told her husband. After he thought about it for a short period, he spoke to his other brother- and both decided to speak to BIL. This was around the same time friend miscarried. He told DH he had some suspicions but given events had decided to give her the benefit of the doubt (especially as it cannot happen again).

Anyway, he was devastated to have his suspicions supported and that his partner would do this- he confronted her. According to him she initially denied it, but eventually said she had accidentally messed up her contraception but had just not said anything, so it wasn’t planned in advance (he doesn’t really believe this and thinks it was a very deliberate choice, probably been the case for some time). However, even if it was a one-off slip, she still chose not to say anything which might have meant BIL would have used a condom or abstained- she apparently admitted to him that she thought he would have done one of those things if he had known the reality of the situation. He has ended their relationship. As they aren’t married, she is going to be in a significantly worse financial situation as she has no claim on any assets or their home.

I am in an awkward situation- I do feel sorry for her as she is understandably struggling with the miscarriage, the end of her relationship but equally think she has behaved terribly towards her ex-partner, who is a member of my family. She’s furious with me/us, but equally wanting support and for me to “speak to” BIL to convince him to give her a second chance.

I genuinely can’t do the latter- I think it’s not only not my place, I believe he is right to end the relationship. I can’t apologise for the former, as I don’t think it was fair to ask me to keep this to myself. In short, I don’t really think I am the right person for her to lean on right now. I think our friendship is essentially over. I think it was over the minute she admitted what she had done- I feel that if she understood me, she should have known what I’d think about her actions, and how I’d feel about being asked to keep it to myself when it is a member of my family impacted. I genuinely do not know why she told us/suggested this if she did not want anyone else to know.

Her mother contacted me to say how much friend is struggling and how worried she is about her mental health, and also how disappointed she is that I haven’t been there more for her. The thing is, my friend just wants to rant about what a POS he is to have dumped her weeks after a miscarriage, making her leave their home etc. our friendship group is split- I’d say 3/4 agree what she did was utterly repugnant, and she put myself and other SIL in an awkward situation by telling us and expecting us to say nothing. The others feel that what she did “wasn’t ideal” but that she doesn’t deserve to lose her relationship, home etc over it and the miscarriage should have bought her some grace. This is going to cause problems in our group. I’m ok with this, although I am
sad as we’ve been friends for a long time, as others are entitled to their views.

I do feel sorry for her regarding the miscarriage, but I also think she is the author of her own misfortune and will have to live with the consequences of her actions. Her actions have absolutely rocked BIL too- he feels utterly betrayed, and is finding the violation of trust really hard to come to terms with. I just can’t pretend I’m ok with what has happened. AIBU?

OP posts:
FaceIt · 08/11/2026 02:42

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Isittimeformynapyet · 08/11/2026 03:19

Jimmyjumpy · 07/11/2026 22:41

If she is your friend then you should continue being her friend but make clear a few ground rules about what you wont discuss.

But why should she continue to be her friend?

Do you think friendships must last forever?

PollyBell · 08/11/2026 03:24

No i could not remain friends with someone who treats having a child as some sort of joke and puts their needs before a child's

Isittimeformynapyet · 08/11/2026 03:29

Rainandhail · 07/11/2026 23:17

Totally agree with these posts.

why on earth are you all so involved in another couple’s contraception issues? You’ve said you can’t get involved in helping your friend repair her relationships but you certainly could get involved when you all informed her husband of something she told you in confidence.

All sounds a bit too righteous.

Edited
Show quote history

That's not "getting involved in their contraception" it's getting involved in the woman's deception. Totally different things.

@Coldcalmcollected I don't think you did anything wrong, but I don't think you need to keep defending yourself on this thread.

Be satisfied with the poll result, which is heavily in your favour. You are never going to change some posters minds so don't keep bashing your head against the wall.

If you are put in a position where you have to explain yourself to the friend or her mother again, just say you wish her well but have been put in a very difficult situation and your own marriage has to take priority.

AmnesiacDream · 08/11/2026 03:30

I see a lot of problems with her behaviour:

Trying to trick your BiL into having a child he didn't want.

Telling you about it, when it's your BiL, not just some guy you don't know other than through her, and in front of your SiL.

Trying to get you to intervene with your BiL after you've told her you can't.

Getting her mother to pressure you.

All of these things are pretty awful behaviour on her part. Can't believe the poster that thinks you owed her confidentiality when she deliberately told you and is aware of your loyalty and connection to her partner. People don't get to demand that off you when they are unnecessarily putting you in such a horrible position. She's treated you really badly, as well as her Ex. I don't think you owe her anything and YANBU to end the friendship.

Nevertheless, she's a long standing friend and it sounds like part of a larger group of friends. So I would probably take the line that it's not just BiL she's treated badly, it's you too and you need a little time to put things behind you and decide if you can forgive her, until then, you really don't want to hear from or about her.

Member869894 · 08/11/2026 03:43

With friends like you who needs enemies? You'd be doing her a massive favour if you ended the realtionship

MCF86 · 08/11/2026 04:09

LemonPuppyPorkChop · 07/11/2026 17:45

I think you’re way too involved here, and that passing on something she told you to your DH was an outrageous betrayal of confidence. Basically, this is the mess you get when you interfere.

Would lying by omission not be a betrayal to the BIL? It was an outrageous expectation of the friend who could quite simply have kept her own mouth shut instead of making a glib comment, like it was no big deal.

MCF86 · 08/11/2026 04:13

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I don't think that was a sleeping dog. I'd be devastated to find out a close family member kept quiet, knowing my partner was completely abusing my trust in them.

Autumnalhibernationisthedream · 08/11/2026 04:42

I think you’re waaayyyyy too involved in this and I think that something so big to be gossiped about and passed around was awful for your friend too (and I think you all need to stop it being a constant drama in the family as that could happen). If you don’t agree with it you’re probably not the best person to advocate for her anyway but I think you if she’s your friend you could still be friends if the friendship was outside the parameters of knowing her dh at all if you know what I mean.

I think she acted terribly but has been absolutely hammered too. I don’t think they should get back together, how would day to day life even work with the two of them, both bitter, sad, angry at the other for different reasons.

sillycoldmondays · 08/11/2026 04:52

Play stupid games win stupid prizes. She did this to herself

Mumtobabyhavoc · 08/11/2026 05:07

What a bloody drama.
It's not OP's business.
She really should say nothing further.
I'm not sure I'd end the friendship.

Original poster
Coldcalmcollected · 08/11/2026 05:10

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well, I think she involved me and SIL when she told us what she’d done. We were all aware about her stance of not wanting children, until she did, because she was very open about it. She was also quite open about her change of mind. I knew BIL did not want more children because I’ve known him for a long time. Furthermore, my friend had told me that it was a good thing he felt this way when they first started seeing each other because she didn’t want them either. It’s not like any of that was secretly being gossiped about behind their backs. incidentally, she is the one who told several of our mutual friends about what had happened- I did not rush off to spread it around with glee, as some seem to be imagining. I did not contact my (ex)friend’s mum- she contacted me.

BIL had told DH she was pushing for DC and that it was causing issues between them- DH told me this. I did not tell her, or anyone else, what DH had told me. You might call that gossiping/tattle, I suppose.

I didn’t ask her to let slip about what she had done, I genuinely can’t fathom why she did. I can only suppose she mistakenly thought I’d have the same attitude as some posters here- that even if what she had done wasn’t right, she hadn’t really done anything terribly wrong either (I strongly disagree with that sentiment); or that even if it was wrong, it wasn’t any of my business so I should forget she’d said it at all. I don’t agree with that either- because I think what she did was coercive and premeditatedly so- if BIL had done something of a similar nature or severity towards her, I wouldn’t be defending him or pretending it was fine. I also think if BIL had been similarly coercive, or in any way abusive to her I would not have been told by Mn’ers that the best thing to do would be to mind my own business and carry on having a close relationship with him.

I’m shocked by her behaviour, it is just not what I would have expected of her. Clearly, I misjudged her character.

And yes, I admit that part of the choice to tell DH was that I knew he would be very hurt to discover that I knew something like that about his brother and kept it to myself. And yes, I was totally unsurprised that my SIL had told her DH- I do think it was almost inevitable that it would get out because SIL knew too. So, it is true there was an element of self-interest, as well as the fact that I thought BIL should know the truth so he could make informed decisions about his future (though I was willing to follow DH’s lead if he was absolutely against telling him. I don’t think I would have been able to maintain the same relationship with his partner going forward, if that had been the case). In his shoes, I’d absolutely want to know about such a serious breach of trust. I think expecting me to put her secret/confidence in higher precedence than a member of my family being betrayed and their trust utterly violated by their partner AND potentially causing problems within my own relationship, is unfair- both of my friend and posters who seem to think I should just have kept it to myself.

In terms of what was said to BIL- I was not there but my understanding was that they told him what his partner had said, and how she had backtracked when she had a negative response to her disclosure. BIL told DH he’d had suspicions when, after years of the contraceptive working very effectively, it had suddenly failed not too long after she changed her mind- but when he’d voiced something along those lines she’d been really upset and angry, and he’d ended up feeling really guilty for thinking she’d do something so awful to him. In the end, he’d decided he had to give her the benefit of the doubt, and chalk it up to an unfortunate contraceptive failure. He had accepted he would need to take responsibility for the child, however much he didn’t want the pregnancy to continu. His lack of enthusiasm had also really annoyed his partner too (and both facts were quite obvious to everyone). So, when he was told that it would seem that his suspicions were right and not only had she betrayed his trust in a truly horrible and profound way, she’d then compounded it by gaslighting him into feeling guilty for doubting her, it totally devastated him. BIL is absolutely clear he would rather know the truth. And, yes, I suppose DH telling me is more “gossiping”- though I don’t think DH venting to me is quite the same. I have not passed on anything DH told me.

In terms of timelines, I told DH very soon after I found out, and before the miscarriage. DH told his brother shortly before she miscarried. I don’t know exactly when BIL confronted his partner- I think he may have brought it up with her before and then things came to a head after, reading between the lines. But he definitely knew before. I’m not too sure that it changes much in terms of what she did- it was wrong regardless.

OP posts:
OtterlyAstounding · 08/11/2026 05:21

So many men just never bother to get vasectomies until contraception fails, do they? If only they took responsibility for their own reproductive decisions.

On the topic - of course you can end the friendship if you want. No one can force you to be friends with someone, and given the very messy situation it seems as though it would be best to at least take a break from her, and step back for a while.

PollyBell · 08/11/2026 05:29

OtterlyAstounding · 08/11/2026 05:21

So many men just never bother to get vasectomies until contraception fails, do they? If only they took responsibility for their own reproductive decisions.

On the topic - of course you can end the friendship if you want. No one can force you to be friends with someone, and given the very messy situation it seems as though it would be best to at least take a break from her, and step back for a while.

So say a bloke has a child or two and says 'right i am off to get a vasectomy do you want me to grt milk on the way home- would women just accept that or start crying they want more kids and how can he do this to her?

OtterlyAstounding · 08/11/2026 05:37

PollyBell · 08/11/2026 05:29

So say a bloke has a child or two and says 'right i am off to get a vasectomy do you want me to grt milk on the way home- would women just accept that or start crying they want more kids and how can he do this to her?

Show quote history
Hmm

I would presume that the woman’s reaction would vary based on the couple, whether or not they discussed the size of the family they wanted ahead of time, and whether his desire to not have any more children is a new thing. I’d also think a man who brought it up in that way was a bit of an idiot.

But I’m not sure what any of that (the woman’s reaction etc) has to do with a man making a decision about his own body. If he doesn’t ever want to have more children then he should take responsibility for that, not put the responsibility of contraception on someone else.

Dancingspleen1 · 08/11/2026 05:41

EdgyNewt · 07/11/2026 18:06

Your friend made a very big mistake, but she is also a human being who clearly wanted a baby despite saying otherwise.

The argument is between her and BIL. You were right to tell him the truth.

But now you need to take BIL out of the picture. If your friend had done that with some other bloke that wasn't BIL, would you be dropping your friend for her mistake? She clearly very badly wanted a baby and was willing to leave that to chance over not taking her contraception. And she has now lost the baby.

Personally I'd still be there for my friend as there is no way I could not be, despite the circumstances.

I agree with this 100%
It was a terrible misjudgement on her side - she made a huge mistake but she's facing the ramifications now. She must be in a very dark place having lost her baby, partner and now her friend. I wouldn't turn my back on a friend in these circumstances.

Original poster
Coldcalmcollected · 08/11/2026 05:51

OtterlyAstounding · 08/11/2026 05:21

So many men just never bother to get vasectomies until contraception fails, do they? If only they took responsibility for their own reproductive decisions.

On the topic - of course you can end the friendship if you want. No one can force you to be friends with someone, and given the very messy situation it seems as though it would be best to at least take a break from her, and step back for a while.

I don’t agree that the fact BIL did not have a vasectomy made it fair game to knowingly and deliberately betray his trust so profoundly. It is indefensible. He consented to sex with contraception, he may well not have chosen to have sex without that in place. I don’t disagree that a vasectomy would be sensible if a man is sure he does not want a child- BUT, if you have a mutually agreed form of contraception it is not unreasonable for both parties to expect that to be used as agreed.

It is, of course true that contraception does fail, and both parties have to accept this possibility if one or both parties have not been sterilised. if that had happened and he;d been outraged, your comment would be absolutely valid. That is not what happened here. This was a planned deception, not a genuine contraceptive failure or even a one off mistake- it was a planned deception. The lack of vasectomy made the appalling behaviour possible, it doesn’t make it inevitable or justifiable.

It is morally and ethically wrong for one partner to make a unilateral decision to stop using the agreed form of contraception without informing their partner that they have done so (though, of course, a woman is free to make the decision to stop using a contraceptive unilaterally- but she must tell her partner). Even more so if you believe/know that if your partner knew the true situation that they would abstain from sex or use a condom (or other form of contraception). That is reproductive coercion and it is abusive. It is an absolute violation of your partner and makes a mockery of consent. It is not illegal, though I think it should be.

OP posts:
OtterlyAstounding · 08/11/2026 06:01

Coldcalmcollected · 08/11/2026 05:51

I don’t agree that the fact BIL did not have a vasectomy made it fair game to knowingly and deliberately betray his trust so profoundly. It is indefensible. He consented to sex with contraception, he may well not have chosen to have sex without that in place. I don’t disagree that a vasectomy would be sensible if a man is sure he does not want a child- BUT, if you have a mutually agreed form of contraception it is not unreasonable for both parties to expect that to be used as agreed.

It is, of course true that contraception does fail, and both parties have to accept this possibility if one or both parties have not been sterilised. if that had happened and he;d been outraged, your comment would be absolutely valid. That is not what happened here. This was a planned deception, not a genuine contraceptive failure or even a one off mistake- it was a planned deception. The lack of vasectomy made the appalling behaviour possible, it doesn’t make it inevitable or justifiable.

It is morally and ethically wrong for one partner to make a unilateral decision to stop using the agreed form of contraception without informing their partner that they have done so (though, of course, a woman is free to make the decision to stop using a contraceptive unilaterally- but she must tell her partner). Even more so if you believe/know that if your partner knew the true situation that they would abstain from sex or use a condom (or other form of contraception). That is reproductive coercion and it is abusive. It is an absolute violation of your partner and makes a mockery of consent. It is not illegal, though I think it should be.

Show quote history

You're arguing against something I didn't say.

I said isn't it a shame that despite never wanting more children, he procrastinated taking responsibility for his own sperm, and instead relied on someone else to bear the burden of preventing pregnancy (someone who, as it turned out, was untrustworthy).

It does seem to be a pattern with many men to expect women to accommodate and enable their choices instead of doing something themselves, and it would save a lot of tears for everyone if they actually bothered taking responsibility, and just got a vasectomy once they'd made up their mind. It certainly would've saved your brother in law a lot of stress and hassle.

HelmholtzWatson · 08/11/2026 06:06

That is reproductive coercion and it is abusive. It is an absolute violation of your partner and makes a mockery of consent. It is not illegal, though I think it should be.

👏

gibletsarerank · 08/11/2026 06:08

Dancingspleen1 · 08/11/2026 05:41

I agree with this 100%
It was a terrible misjudgement on her side - she made a huge mistake but she's facing the ramifications now. She must be in a very dark place having lost her baby, partner and now her friend. I wouldn't turn my back on a friend in these circumstances.

Show quote history

Agree with both posters, she fucked up big time but it has spectacularly backfired so I would feel for her.

Empress13 · 08/11/2026 06:11

How good and close a friend was she ? She has done something abhorrent and you reap what you sow BUT if she was a really good close friend of mine I would be there for her but would let her know that under no circumstances am I getting involved in her relationship. Problem you’ll have though is your DH how will he feel if you are still in contact with her after what she did to his brother

Original poster
Coldcalmcollected · 08/11/2026 06:32

Dancingspleen1 · 08/11/2026 05:41

I agree with this 100%
It was a terrible misjudgement on her side - she made a huge mistake but she's facing the ramifications now. She must be in a very dark place having lost her baby, partner and now her friend. I wouldn't turn my back on a friend in these circumstances.

Show quote history

I understand what you’re saying- and if her partner had not been BIL , you are right to suggest that although I would have thought she was totally wrong, I would not have told her partner. I am not sure I’d have been totally sanguine about our friendship- I think it would have negatively impacted my view of her as I think what she did is utterly reprehensible and repugnant. I would probably not have chosen to air that immediately following her miscarriage though.

but there are 2 issues with being a supportive friend, given that her partner is my BIL:

  1. I can’t do what she is asking me to do- which is to try and get BIL to give their relationship another go and support her by listening to her call him for everything because he ended their relationship, given everything she has been through. I can’t do the former as it really isn’t fair to ask me to do that and it wouldn’t be right if I did. I can’t do the latter as I don’t think I can listen to her rant about him when she can’t see she is in the wrong here and when I believe that what she has done is a form of abuse- both the deception/coercion and the gaslighting when he first asked her about it- she made him feel very guilty.

Honestly, if BIL had been abusive or coercive to his partner, profoundly betraying her trust too, but had then suffered a life-changing illness or accident, I very much doubt anyone would suggest I should simply ignore what he’d done to my friend because he was suffering. I think most people would say there is no way that I should continue to support someone who behaved so appallingly to my friend. I feel the same holds true when the victim is a man.

  1. I am not sure I am the best person to help her through this, for her sake. I do hope she gets the support she needs, as I know she is devastated regarding her miscarriage. Losing her relationship, having to leave her home etc is likely compounding that- I am not seeking to minimise what she is going through. But, I honestly don’t believe that the best person to provide the support she needs and wants to is me. I can’t pretend that I think what she did is anything other than appalling, and I can’t pretend that I regret telling DH and thus BIL finding out. I genuinely don’t think I can continue a close friendship with someone whose actions have been so damaging to one of my family members, who I also care about. I don’t feel neutral on this, I can’t be solely in her corner here- and that is what she is looking for. So, I think it would be best if she was supported by someone who can be there in the way she wants/needs and wants to be in that role.

Maybe that’s unfair- I feel that I didn’t know her as well as I thought, and she clearly did not know me well enough either.

OP posts:
newNannie2026 · 08/11/2026 06:41

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no you are wrong. She was right to tell your husband. Her loyalty is to him and her marriage not to the friend who basically tricked the BIL into a pregnancy when he was clear he did not want more children. Sad she lost the baby and the relationship but the BIL has had a lucky escape.

Passingthroughagain · 08/11/2026 07:02

I’m curious: how soon after she miscarried did he throw her out? Days? Weeks?

LaAranaPequenita · 08/11/2026 07:45

Gosh, so many perfect and pure women on this thread.

As someone who had major infertility issues, and a reluctant lazy reproductive DH (wanted kids but the hassle of infertility was too much), I get that some women will beg borrow and steal to have a DC. I highly doubt that your friend is the first woman on the planet to fudge things a bit and see what happens. I have lots of women friends whose DH didn't want a second DC, and then ooopps they got pregnant.

I am not condoning what she did, but lots of women also get pregnant on contraception. I also get the consent bit about her partner. If he 100% didn't want more DC, he should have taken HIS fertility into his own hands. Imagine if a woman came on here and said she was upset she was pregnant and had relied on her partner and condoms. We would've said she needed to sort it out herself. I'm tired of men who outsource it all to us. All those hormones over decades don't do us any good, whilst they get off Scott free.

She has f*cked up big time, but she is in a really bad place. She has messed up, but your BIL is no saint. She has lost everything. Personally I would go make sure she is OK.

She got with a man who had already been married and had DC and then he was happy to have her live with him and be in a relationship, but with zero commitment. HE didn't want to have more DC and I take it HE didn't want to get married.

This is actually mistake no.2 that she made. Her mistake was setting her bar so low to have a man who didn't want to commit to marriage and have DC as he'd already done it, and staying with him long term.

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