To end this friendship?

I don’t think you’ve put a foot wrong OP. What she did was outrageous.

People saying you’re too involved, bullshit! It’s your family for gods sake!

And those saying he was irresponsible with contraception are frankly nuts. It was presumably agreed that they would use the pill as their form of contraception and she concealed “making a mistake” (don’t believe that for a second by the way). He did nothing wrong!

Bluntly, it’s not the OP’s business. I don’t disagree that what the SIL did was ethically wrong, but her husband was also irresponsible about contraception in the circumstances. I’d have told her that what she did was appalling, that she should tell her husband the truth, and that I didn’t want to hear another word about it, or any potential fallout, and taken a step back, because I’d be questioning my own judgement about having this person as a friend.

The OP is dealing with this precise level of family/friendship mess because she didn’t take it up with her SIL at the time, and told her exactly how poor her behaviour was, but tattled to her DH behind her back.

The choice wasn’t between ‘pretending it was fine’ and betraying your friend’s confidence to your DH.

I cannot condone her behaviour, at all. But I am struggling to see your intervention as justified. I’d say butt out of other people’s relationships. It has all blown up way further than it needed to or would have done without your intervention.

I agree with this. Tbh none of you come out of this looking good.

My view, whatever the rights and wrongs of how she became pregnant - and men having sex with women do have to accept they might get pregnant - she is suffering terribly now. She is grieving a much wanted baby, the loss of her relationship and the loss of her home. As well as it, it looks like, some of her friendships. This is a hugely destructive and traumatic amount of loss for anyone to go through all at once and in one stroke. Her mother is right to be worried about her.

I certainly would not get involved in trying to recover her relationship, but I would absolutely be there for her as a friend.

You are behaving like an absolute busy body

“Whatever the rights and wrongs of how she became pregnant” is quite a remarkable way to gloss over deliberate reproductive coercion.

Yes, men having sex with women have to accept that pregnancy is a possibility. What they don’t have to accept is their partner deliberately lying about contraception because she knows they wouldn’t consent to sex under those circumstances.

If a man deliberately sabotaged contraception to get his partner pregnant against her wishes, would you be so quick to dismiss it as simply one of the risks women take when having sex?

And I’m struggling to understand exactly what the OP has done wrong here. She told her husband that his brother was being deceived. Apparently that’s enough for you to conclude that she doesn’t come out of this looking good.

It’s quite something to see more criticism directed at the person who exposed the deception than the person responsible for it.

If he didn't want a child he should have used condoms or had a vasectomy. He needs to take responsibility for that.

Im not saying she didn't do wrong but people do stupid things when emotions are involved and yes she'll have to live with those consequences but all friends turning their back on her is intentionally cruel. She hasn't deceived you, so why do you need to be so cruel?

I'd rather have your friend in my life than anyone else in this scenario. Yes, she messed up but for you and SIL to pass on that comment, which wasn't even an outright confession, was really, really shitty. Your husbands passing it on around the time of her miscarriage was shitty. Your BIL ending the relationship and making her leave her home just after a miscarriage was unbelievably heartless. You to not want to support your 'friend' through this is also heartless. I'm going to guess you and SIL weren't that keen on her being a part of the family before this happened.

Maybe not everyone sees things in such black and white extremes as you!

My comprehension is perfectly fine, thank you. Perhaps you could try addressing what I’ve actually said rather than resorting to insults.

I haven’t suggested you think her behaviour was acceptable. I’ve questioned why you described the OP telling her husband as an “outrageous betrayal of confidence”, blamed her for the resulting mess and even criticised the BIL for being irresponsible about contraception.

You’ve now gone from calling the disclosure outrageous to saying the OP’s reasons were understandable. That’s quite a change in tone.
And what exactly was the OP supposed to do if her friend refused to confess? Keep quiet indefinitely while her husband’s brother remained unaware of the deception?

You seem far more interested in the OP’s motives for telling the truth than in the fact that someone was deliberately deceived in the first place.

You can acknowledge that the friend’s behaviour was appalling all you like, but it doesn’t explain why you’re so determined to find fault with the people who exposed it.

Perhaps instead of questioning my comprehension, you could answer the questions I’ve actually asked.

I haven’t insulted you, merely questioned your reading comprehension. I was responding to what the OP disclosed in response to my questions in subsequent posts. She admits her telling her husband was in part motivated by pure self-interest, because she thought it was going to come out and that he would blame her for having known and not told him. She was covering her own ass.

And yes, I think that changes my response to her decision, if she didn’t interfere voluntarily in this mess — if she felt forced to tell because she thought it would have dire consequences for her own marriage when it became known that she’d known.

I’m still interested in when exactly her DH told his brother, whether it was before or after the miscarriage.

I’m being asked to support someone and I can’t. It’s a long one.

Basically, my friend was in a long-term relationship with my BIL (DH’s brother), they met through me. She has always known that he did not want any more children (he has 2 with his ex-wife). She has, until recently, been fine with it- at least publicly. Obviously, I cannot know if she has secretly harboured other wishes but she has never given this impression (and, in previous relationships says she did not want children, so I’m inclined to think this is a change of heart). According to BIL, he has always been 100% clear that he does not want any more children and has never suggested he might change his mind- until recently she has never suggested she was unhappy with this situation. However, recently she decided she does want children. BIL’s view remained unchanged.

A few months ago friend had an “oops” pregnancy- I believe she deliberately stopped contraception without saying so (I.e. planned a pregnancy) based on something she said to me and my other SIL- but she quickly backtracked when both of us were fairly horrified at the “sometimes you just have to make it happen, if you get what I mean” comment.

I would agree she has the right to stop contraception any time she likes, but she should be honest with her partner as it’s a mutual thing if no contraception is being used. Equally, I think both parties have to accept contraceptive failures do happen. But deliberately not using it without saying so is utterly wrong and a huge betrayal of trust, in my opinion.

BIL had a vasectomy very quickly (privately) after he found out his partner was pregnant- against her wishes- as he was adamant he does not want more children. I think he probably should have done it sooner, but equally don’t think it unreasonable that he trusted his partner to take the agreed contraceptive. He was accepting of a contraceptive failure, though he was honest about the fact that he was not keen to keep the baby. He was obviously prepared to shoulder his responsibility to the baby, despite his lack of enthusiasm. I think this is totally reasonable.

Sadly, friend had a miscarriage at 14 weeks. She was, and is, devastated by the miscarriage. I do feel for her- despite the circumstances- and I know BIL’s palpable relief at the outcome probably made it harder for her. But, equally, I think he is entitled to his own feelings and never pretended he was excited to be a father again. Obviously, I have never said that to her- that is just my thoughts.

Anyway, I’d said to DH about what she’s said and that I thought this was very off. DH also thought that what she said was suspicious. It seems other SIL also told her husband. After he thought about it for a short period, he spoke to his other brother- and both decided to speak to BIL. This was around the same time friend miscarried. He told DH he had some suspicions but given events had decided to give her the benefit of the doubt (especially as it cannot happen again).

Anyway, he was devastated to have his suspicions supported and that his partner would do this- he confronted her. According to him she initially denied it, but eventually said she had accidentally messed up her contraception but had just not said anything, so it wasn’t planned in advance (he doesn’t really believe this and thinks it was a very deliberate choice, probably been the case for some time). However, even if it was a one-off slip, she still chose not to say anything which might have meant BIL would have used a condom or abstained- she apparently admitted to him that she thought he would have done one of those things if he had known the reality of the situation. He has ended their relationship. As they aren’t married, she is going to be in a significantly worse financial situation as she has no claim on any assets or their home.

I am in an awkward situation- I do feel sorry for her as she is understandably struggling with the miscarriage, the end of her relationship but equally think she has behaved terribly towards her ex-partner, who is a member of my family. She’s furious with me/us, but equally wanting support and for me to “speak to” BIL to convince him to give her a second chance.

I genuinely can’t do the latter- I think it’s not only not my place, I believe he is right to end the relationship. I can’t apologise for the former, as I don’t think it was fair to ask me to keep this to myself. In short, I don’t really think I am the right person for her to lean on right now. I think our friendship is essentially over. I think it was over the minute she admitted what she had done- I feel that if she understood me, she should have known what I’d think about her actions, and how I’d feel about being asked to keep it to myself when it is a member of my family impacted. I genuinely do not know why she told us/suggested this if she did not want anyone else to know.

Her mother contacted me to say how much friend is struggling and how worried she is about her mental health, and also how disappointed she is that I haven’t been there more for her. The thing is, my friend just wants to rant about what a POS he is to have dumped her weeks after a miscarriage, making her leave their home etc. our friendship group is split- I’d say 3/4 agree what she did was utterly repugnant, and she put myself and other SIL in an awkward situation by telling us and expecting us to say nothing. The others feel that what she did “wasn’t ideal” but that she doesn’t deserve to lose her relationship, home etc over it and the miscarriage should have bought her some grace. This is going to cause problems in our group. I’m ok with this, although I am
sad as we’ve been friends for a long time, as others are entitled to their views.

I do feel sorry for her regarding the miscarriage, but I also think she is the author of her own misfortune and will have to live with the consequences of her actions. Her actions have absolutely rocked BIL too- he feels utterly betrayed, and is finding the violation of trust really hard to come to terms with. I just can’t pretend I’m ok with what has happened. AIBU?